Swiss M18/40,46 dc

[Greg Pickersgill]

Well, I think we have an arguable conclusion here. I have examined all my M18 series helmets, fourteen in all, 6 with the original liner, and four each with the /40 and /63 pattern liner, and of those TEN sit absolutely flush on a flat surface, and FOUR have the uptilt to the rear. ALL those four have the Kyburz stamp. Three are with the /63 pattern liner, and one is a n early model with the original full-hoop liner band. I also have one other uptiled example which has no Kyburz stamp, but that is one of the comparatively rare Large size and the tilt may be as a result of the upscaling in size.

On this quite limited sample we could assume that the uptilt at the rear is an artifact of the Kyburz manufacturing process. Seems possible, but it would be useful to know how many other concerns made these helmets - and why they weren't ever given identification stamps! These people, they have no concern at all for the collectors who come along decades later.

[austromunga]

Well I have been meaning to post up my newest Swiss acquisition for a little while now..i was hoping to get another different variation type cover for it first... but seeing these recent posts, has forced my hand so to speak!! so I thought I would answer the General call you sent out!!! (as I couldn't wait to check it against your ones!!) Ok now.... it would seem to me, to be the M18/40,63 with rough sand texture and second type liner (markings on the liner badly faded so deciphering a date impossible for this one!!)... and as I recalled had some markings in the rear of the shell which I was sure someone would be able to identify!!..... now already answered from your previous posts !! thanks guys!!!!!!
So my new one is also a Kyburz manufactured example!! with very clear stamping..... K over IX..... however this one also has another stamping further up... which would seem to be an X with an R underneath!!??? perhaps you could spread a little light on those marks!!??? size marks!!???.....
Well!!!... on to the important test.... for the fabled up-tilt!!!! ... now this I'm afraid...... is where I have to apologise... as I was hoping to be able to corroborate your findings with your examples........but to my surprise!!!.... this one has no up-tilt!!!
(see photo of non up-tilt M18/40 for comparison)
an exception to the rule perhaps!!?? or..... as both this and the earlier full band M18/40 I used for comparison have been well used, and a little bashed and dented over the years, the "wings" on the sides in my opinion, would seem to have been bent inwards!!??? possibly to reduce the side profile, snagging hazard??????!!??) unless all examples usually have this appearance, I only have the two M18 /40 type, my others are a different profile being /63 and 46 DC types.....
and the debate goes on!!........

[Greg Pickersgill]

OK Austro, first a small correction, you have the THIRD type liner, which has just one cord-loop per pad, as opposed to the second type which has two per pad similar to the FIRST type (are you still with me here!?!?!). Of course both the SECOND AND THIRD have the horseshoe liner band. (No-one said Swiss helmets were simple.)

As to why yours has no uptilt, well your guess is as good as mine. And I don't know what the other possible marking is either, though I have seen something similar myself - my theory is that its just an artifact of striking the Kyburz imprint...but then who knows?. There's a current theory going around (betwen me and one otyher character in Canada) that many of these Kyburz shells are freshly made in the 1960s to go with the third-type liner, so one might reasonably say that the odd flat-bottom one may be an earlier shell refurbished. If we had better into on the whens and hows of manufacturing we'd be in a more wonderful world.

Roger Lucy (for it is indeed he himself) extracting the following from the WWH webpage - first a note on makers...

Werker in Baden (near Zurich not the one in Germany)
Metallwarenfabrik - Zug
Needless to say with different makers one is going to see variations in the the helmets' exact shape and dimensions.
With respect to the M.18/63 see the World Warhelmets fiche
.: World War Helmets - Casque Modèle 18/63 :.
It says that none have size or serial numbers but that the Kyburz logo seems quite common.

World War helmets notes, "...the shape and dimensions are closer to the M.18 than to the M.18/40. The shell has undergone a modification at the level of the visor, closer to that of the initial Modèle 18 ... the slope is clearly more accentuated {than the M.40] giving a better filed of vision to the sides. The visor is practically horizontal, giving the appearance of that of a cap...the difference between the [M.18] and M.63 is more subtile than between the M.18 and M.40"

Maddening isn't it. Unfortunately the only book on the Swiss helmet is actually not that much help. Still, this is the sort of thing that makes helmetcollecting exciting and not just a sort of tick-the-box collecting mania.

[James C]

well what an interesting thread this has turned out to be ,i decided to look closer over my example and take some better close up shots ,it sits fairly flat on a level surface ,the liner has the 2 loops per pad tongues and ive looked with a keen eye over the interior but cant see any maker stamp at all

[OldSteel]

Good evening, Gents
interesting discussion, I am not an expert on Swiss helmet, but I own several examples in my collection, if may be helpful to your study might I add an example of my M18/40 marked "IX", highlighting some differences vs an M18/63 example:

M18/40


M18/40 on the right; M18/63 on the left


From left to right:
-example M18/40: with coarse grained textured paint, dark gray interior;the rear flap fits perfectly with the surface of the support plane.
-example M18/63. with coarse textured paint, medium gray interior; the rear flap fits perfectly with the surface of the support plane.
-example M18/40 "IX" marked: with fine grained textured paint, dark gray interior; the rear flap is lifted form the surface of the support plane.


I leave you to your evaluations.

Greetings
Roberto

[reneblacky]

Just received this dusty M18/40/43 example today, interesting it has the green paint underneath the black and it has a '56 dated liner.
I'd love to read your opinions please?

[reneblacky]

Must add that this example has all 6 liner bendy clips the larger size diameter, my 18/63 has 2 large & 4 smaller diameter.

[reneblacky]

Here's other shots of my (the new one came with a cover) Swiss helmets to pollute this thread.
Couple there for A Good Mate Santi.

[James C]

Great Grouping Rene' ,i could do with picking up another M18 example to display the reversible camo cover

[battle gear]

did they make the SWISS M18 in one shell size with different size padding? or did they make a small , medium , large?