Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

West German M85 / M1A1

Article about: Following on from my hunch that the Chinstraps maker were the same as the Austrian Stalhelm 1 and 2, I took some pictures this afternoon for comparison.

  1. #1
    ?

    Default West German M85 / M1A1

    Hi Fellow collectors, Here's a West German M85 / M1A1 ( modified) from my collection which I thought you might like to see for discussion. The Shell has a nice clear VDN Busch makers stamp on the front inner rim, and the liner is dated 1992 and made by Schuberth. Of interest to me is the East German net with strips of Flecktarn material attached to it, I have not seen anything like this in my research and could be the exception not the rule. I have also included a picture of the chinstrap clip which has a maker's mark I am not familiar with,does anyone know who made these? (It makes me wonder if the same factory made the West German and Austrian chinstrap hardware??) Anyway thanks for looking and I look forward to your comments. Opex

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	012.jpg 
Views:	119 
Size:	234.0 KB 
ID:	666722
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	011.jpg 
Views:	195 
Size:	235.6 KB 
ID:	666723
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	013.jpg 
Views:	146 
Size:	236.9 KB 
ID:	666724
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	017.jpg 
Views:	75 
Size:	234.6 KB 
ID:	666725
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	018.jpg 
Views:	86 
Size:	236.7 KB 
ID:	666726
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	014.jpg 
Views:	80 
Size:	222.4 KB 
ID:	666727
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	004.jpg 
Views:	71 
Size:	216.1 KB 
ID:	666728
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	005.jpg 
Views:	49 
Size:	212.3 KB 
ID:	666729
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	006.jpg 
Views:	88 
Size:	213.6 KB 
ID:	666730
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	008.jpg 
Views:	78 
Size:	212.1 KB 
ID:	666731
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	010.jpg 
Views:	81 
Size:	223.2 KB 
ID:	666732
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	020.jpg 
Views:	88 
Size:	229.1 KB 
ID:	666733
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	021.jpg 
Views:	55 
Size:	209.4 KB 
ID:	666734

  2. #2

    Default

    Opex. a nice condition M1A1 modified, you will find plenty of information on these helmets here on WRF if you search the Bundeswehr and World helmet sections....as for the NVA net, quite common for these to end up on a BW helmet after 1991, as the entire DDR armies stock became available to the Bundeswehr, which at the time was expanded and new "East" divisions formed from ex NVA troops, some equipment like these nets found there way to BW clothing stores for issue.....most equipment though, was sold off the foreign countries.
    As for the cammo strips, an any thing goes attitude in the BW with regards helmet cammo, BW troops since 1955 have begged borrowed or bartered for other NATO armies covers, U.S. Brit etc, or made their own from splintertarn/ameoba pattern zelt material, the first official cammo helmet covers were not issued in the BW until some time after the introduction of the Flecktarn uniform in early to mid 1990's.......and even then not all got them !
    Prost ! Steve.

    p.s. see here for makers of BRD kit... Maker marks for Bundeswehr/ BRD items......
    "The German Army is the perfectly adapted, perfectly running Machine. The difference is that the Germans are organised with a view to War...with the cold, hard, practical and business-like purpose of winning victories."
    G.W. Steevens - The Daily Mail (1897)

  3. #3
    ?

    Default

    Quote by oradour View Post
    Opex. a nice condition M1A1 modified, you will find plenty of information on these helmets here on WRF if you search the Bundeswehr and World helmet sections....as for the NVA net, quite common for these to end up on a BW helmet after 1991, as the entire DDR armies stock became available to the Bundeswehr, which at the time was expanded and new "East" divisions formed from ex NVA troops, some equipment like these nets found there way to BW clothing stores for issue.....most equipment though, was sold off the foreign countries.
    As for the cammo strips, an any thing goes attitude in the BW with regards helmet cammo, BW troops since 1955 have begged borrowed or bartered for other NATO armies covers, U.S. Brit etc, or made their own from splintertarn/ameoba pattern zelt material, the first official cammo helmet covers were not issued in the BW until some time after the introduction of the Flecktarn uniform in early to mid 1990's.......and even then not all got them !
    Prost ! Steve.

    p.s. see here for makers of BRD kit... Maker marks for Bundeswehr/ BRD items......

    Hi Steve ,many thanks for looking and for the compliment on this helmet, I particularly like this helmet/netting ,although I suspect there are many pieces of the Flecktarn strips missing. Fantastic information regarding the unison of East and West German forces and makers marks too thanks for that. I have quite a few pieces of Bundy militaria, and was not even aware that there was a sub section here, so I will dig out my collection and post away, great discussion.

    Kind regards,Opex.

  4. #4

    Default

    i like this one a lot opex the scrim is a work of art ,ive seen this scrim style used on austrian m1 clones and of course more recently on the latest british composite ,i too noticed the former east german issue netting but steve explains it so much better than me to the reasons why, i used an exact net on one of my bw lids a while back and thought id used it in error before i was told it was perfectly fine to use ,nice to see the war time maker olc stamped on the chin clasp ,also interesting to see the rim stamp ,ive not seen this done before ,but my eyes read it as VBN and im sure its a familiar stamp on dutch made shells but that makes no sence at all so it must be as steve's guide states VDN ,thanks for showing ,ps im going to dig mine out now and inspect it in detail

  5. #5
    ?

    Default

    Quote by James C View Post
    i like this one a lot opex the scrim is a work of art ,ive seen this scrim style used on austrian m1 clones and of course more recently on the latest british composite ,i too noticed the former east german issue netting but steve explains it so much better than me to the reasons why, i used an exact net on one of my bw lids a while back and thought id used it in error before i was told it was perfectly fine to use ,nice to see the war time maker olc stamped on the chin clasp ,also interesting to see the rim stamp ,ive not seen this done before ,but my eyes read it as VBN and im sure its a familiar stamp on dutch made shells but that makes no sence at all so it must be as steve's guide states VDN ,thanks for showing ,ps im going to dig mine out now and inspect it in detail
    Hi ,James long time no speak, how are doing? ,and many thanks for your kind and informative words. The info regarding the OLC stamp is of special interest cheers for that.

    Your right it does look like VBN(83), that's odd I could have sworn with the naked eye it said VDN, that makes this marking all the more mysterious, perhaps the Dutch had a contract to make these shells for the West Germans??

    The East German net is cool, and like you I like the look, as before I feel there must be some strips missing, as it has some "bald spots" , I think I will leave it though!

    Funny enough I am going to dig out my other Bundy M85, to check that one out for stamps too, I seem to recall I have a Dutch M1 by a similar maker, so I will check this out too for contrast.

    Thanks for looking and your support as ever Matey

  6. #6

    Default

    im doing ok opex and thanks for asking ,your helmets always seem to stir the imagination and the quest for more knowledge that goes with it ,as it stands this helmet would look superb on any display shelf so well done in having it amongst yours ,please do keep us informed if you dig out any information on any possible dutch shell maker it was purely a wild stab in the dark crossed with pig ignorance so i wasnt expecting that ,ill stay tuned in for more info ,bye james

  7. #7
    ?

    Default

    Quote by James C View Post
    im doing ok opex and thanks for asking ,your helmets always seem to stir the imagination and the quest for more knowledge that goes with it ,as it stands this helmet would look superb on any display shelf so well done in having it amongst yours ,please do keep us informed if you dig out any information on any possible dutch shell maker it was purely a wild stab in the dark crossed with pig ignorance so i wasnt expecting that ,ill stay tuned in for more info ,bye james

    Hi James, I am some what mystified by the stamping on the shell, I thought it might be a Verblifa,so checked this out on-line this morning and checked my Dutch M1's ,but Verblifa marked their shells VB then digits of the date of manufacturer e.g VB 85, so I can only assume it is a VDN Busch makers stamp as I originally guessed?

    Strange and equally annoying,as I like to correctly identify my collection pieces accurately!!

    I will spend a bit more time trying to work out if there are other Bundy helmets with this odd marking,thanks again for your input James,most appreciated

  8. #8

    Default

    There's no evidence than these helmets were made anywhere other than within Germany, and I am sure that your marking is simply a poorly struck VDN for Vereinigte Deutsche Nickelwerke. Of course if someone proves otherwise I will be fascinated and delighted. All knowledge is good.

  9. #9
    ?

    Default

    Quote by Greg Pickersgill View Post
    There's no evidence than these helmets were made anywhere other than within Germany, and I am sure that your marking is simply a poorly struck VDN for Vereinigte Deutsche Nickelwerke. Of course if someone proves otherwise I will be fascinated and delighted. All knowledge is good.

    Hi Greg, I agree with your theory, as there is no other explanation, I did a fair bit of research this morning ( including your excellent site) and have come to the same conclusion as yourself.

    I too would be very satisfied to find out if there is such a stamp as VBN, I doubt it though, but your completely right all knowledge is good.

    Thanks for the information and theory, it is very much appreciated Greg.

    Regards.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote by Greg Pickersgill View Post
    There's no evidence than these helmets were made anywhere other than within Germany, and I am sure that your marking is simply a poorly struck VDN for Vereinigte Deutsche Nickelwerke. Of course if someone proves otherwise I will be fascinated and delighted. All knowledge is good.
    Totally agree with Greg's statement above........................
    Prost !Steve.
    "The German Army is the perfectly adapted, perfectly running Machine. The difference is that the Germans are organised with a view to War...with the cold, hard, practical and business-like purpose of winning victories."
    G.W. Steevens - The Daily Mail (1897)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 03-13-2014, 07:00 AM
  2. Original West German M 1962 M1A1 Helmet

    In German helmets on e-bay just added
    02-01-2014, 02:40 AM
  3. 01-06-2014, 05:40 AM
  4. 11-03-2013, 08:50 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •