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Another Brodie helmet, maybe rimless Type B, looking for opinions

Article about: Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum, and yes I know there are a plethora of other threads regarding Brodie helmets. Truthfully I've been lurking for a very long time and using the Brodie th

  1. #1

    Default Another Brodie helmet, maybe rimless, looking for opinions

    Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum, and yes I know there are a plethora of other threads regarding Brodie helmets. Truthfully I've been lurking for a very long time and using the Brodie thread with the manufacturers and steel suppliers stamp codes for reference at times with my personal helmet collection and with others to help identify some of them. My collection is about 30 strong at this time, and the helmet in question I've actually had for a good number of years. The thing is, I never really gave it much thought until recently. I'll explain my thought process and hopefully I can get some good opinions from you guys on whether you think I'm on track or totally whack. So, I have this helmet that is clearly a British manufactured helmet as indicated by the split rivets. Obviously you'll notice the liner is long gone, as is the case with many of these old helmets. The helmet appears to have no texture on the shell, and it has no rim on it. In the picture showing the above view, it almost looks as though it has texture, that is all pitting and paint wear, it is completely smooth. It does not appear up close that there is any evidence that it ever had a rim on it. Other observations to note are that the shell is thin enough that the stamp is fully raised and clearly visible on the top side of the brim, and there appears to be a slight wave/wrinkle in the side of the soup bowl (observations that don't seem to be present on my other Brodies after further examination). Now obviously that doesn't necessarily mean anything of real significance. That being said, as I've been reading lately, these rimless types are pretty scarce and rims liked to fall off, so I got to thinking maybe it did simply fall off, or maybe some moron removed it at some point. Anyway, on to the stamped code under the brim. Now for years I thought the stamping on this helmet was HH/0150, until I reread the post that has the list of stamping codes tonight for about the hundredth time, and it dawned on me, holy crap, that's HH/O150, which would indicate the manufacturer (HH) was Harrison Bros. & Howson Ltd., and steel supplier (O) was Samuel Osborne & Co Ltd. Now here's the dilemma. Based on the thread I've been referencing all this time, Harrison Bros. & Howson Ltd. manufactured helmets from Dec 1915 on, and Samuel Osborne & Co Ltd. supplied steel from 1916-1918. So, the Harrison Bros. & Howson Ltd. could possibly be correct, however being that Samuel Osborne & Co Ltd. supplied from 16-18, could it really be plausible that this is an original rimless type? I'm pretty certain it can't be. This is my contention. All that being said, I have to admit I don't have a firm time frame as to when the production of the rimless Types ceased, or the level of knowledge required to answer such a question. So maybe my question really is null and void, if I had that information to work from. I would like some opinions based on the stamping and pictures as to whether you think this could be an original rimless type Brodie, or simply a Mark I that's had the rim removed. I'm thinking the latter personally. Thanks for your help.

    Trevor





    Last edited by stratotrev; 01-17-2013 at 03:58 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Another Brodie helmet, maybe rimless Type B, looking for opinions

    Hey there,

    This is definitely a tough call... And I'm sorry I can't help you here. But you mention having quite a few brodies, I, and others, would love to see them!

    If you're up to, that is.

    Thanks, and hope you find some answers!

    Quinn

  3. #3

    Default Re: Another Brodie helmet, maybe rimless Type B, looking for opinions

    Sorry - basic MK I 3rd type, missing its rim versus rimless.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Another Brodie helmet, maybe rimless Type B, looking for opinions

    That looks very similar to a helmet I aquired that is also minus it's rim. Can anyone explain the circumstance behind the rims being purposely removed as opposed to being made without one? I'm not entirely convinced that these helmets ever had a rim. The one I have has no evidence of ever having a rim. Is it possible that a batch of Mk 1, 3rd types were never finished with a rim? I'm very familiar with the early Mk 1's, but I have seen a fair number of what looks to be later types also without a rim. Surely there must be an explanation beyond nefarious collectors purposely removing the rims for the purpose of deceiving other collectors?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Another Brodie helmet, maybe rimless Type B, looking for opinions

    no, they all had rims after the war office pattern was superseded. they are mild steel rims hooped and afixed to the edge with a simply spot rivet. these were mass produced disposable items, over 90 years the rims fail and fall off easily if mishandled, and these were not ever especially cherished until relatively recently. liners fell out easily, straps dried and broke etc. real rimless WO brodies are rare, these are not. it is simply missing parts. here is a good readers digest overview. Index CEF Helmets

  6. #6

    Default Re: Another Brodie helmet, maybe rimless Type B, looking for opinions

    I understand what you are saying, however with the helmet(s) that I have owned with no rim there is no visual evidence of a rim ever being installed. There should have been scratches or some indication that a rim was applied, which is why I am going with what was cited in the CEF Helmet page you indicated (thank you for that link, by the way, very interesting!), that it's a type A rimless shell with a Mk 1 liner.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Another Brodie helmet, maybe rimless Type B, looking for opinions

    well, believe whatever you want. The bales on this shell are the later 1917 style and the general form is rounder that the WO pattern which is distinctly oval. here is an side view of another collectors bona fide unmessed with WO pattern helmet. Note the very clear differences between this and yours.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #8

    Default Re: Another Brodie helmet, maybe rimless Type B, looking for opinions

    Nice lid! Actually, I didn't say my helmet was the one that was pictured above, I said it was similar. Now that I see the one you just now posted, it actually looks more like that shape, but it had the remnants of the later liner in it. Also, I found a patch of original paint under the dome pad and it was this funky olive-green-yellow. I should simply take a pic of it and post it.........

  9. #9

    Default Re: Another Brodie helmet, maybe rimless Type B, looking for opinions

    Well, in any case, thank you all for the replies. I'm just trying to learn a little more and gain some more information aside from all the books and websites I've been studying. Thanks again, and Bravo I'd like to see yours out of curiosity if you feel like posting a pic.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Another Brodie helmet, maybe rimless Type B, looking for opinions

    the early rimless model really looks like a "tin hat" or wash basin

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