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A Mons Star group

Article about: Here's the latest addition to my medal collection a Mons star trio with M.I.D and the Meritorious Service Medal. The star is inscribed to 10457 Sapper Henry Rose R.E. The War Medal and Victo

  1. #1

    Default A Mons Star group

    Here's the latest addition to my medal collection, a Mons star trio with M.I.D and the Meritorious Service Medal. The star is inscribed to 10457 Sapper Henry Rose R.E. The War Medal and Victory Medal are both inscribed... 10457. A. CPL. H. ROSE. R. E. The MSM is inscribed... 10457. A. CPL. H. ROSE. 2/A. S. CO: R.E.

    Cpl Rose served with 4 Signal Troop: R. E., part of the 4th Cavalry Brigade. He was mentioned in despatches, the award being gazetted on 15th June 1916. His medal index card is marked... "MID. 15 June 1916. For Gallant and distinguished conduct in the field."

    He was a short while later, granted an 'Immediate' award of the MSM, this being gazetted on 18th October 1916. The award was originally a form of long service award. But from 1916 onwards it was also issued as an award for services in the field which fell below the standard required for the DCM or MM. A small number were also issued for acts of gallantry 'not in face of the enemy.' The medals issued for long service did not carry the recipients service number, whereas the 'immediate' award had all the recipients details inscribed.

    I know I am probably clutching at straws, but given the closeness of Cpl Rose's two awards, it is possible his MSM was for an act of gallantry 'not in face of the enemy.'

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Author of... 'Belfast Diaries: A Gunner In Northern Ireland'... 'A Tough Nut To Crack: Andersonstown.. Voices From 9 Battery Royal Artillery In Northern Ireland'... 'An Accrington Pal: The Diaries of Pte Jack Smallshaw, September 1914 To March 1919'.

  2. #2

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    Great group there Steve!....
    It's a wasted trip baby. Nobody said nothing about locking horns with no Tigers.



    I'm Spartacus, not really i'm Paul!...

  3. #3
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    Nice group.

  4. #4

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    Very nice indeed.
    Had good advice? Saved money? Why not become a Gold Club Member, just hit the green "Join WRF Club" tab at the top of the page and help support the forum!

  5. #5

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    That's a beautiful set.........!
    Regards,


    Steve.

  6. #6

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    A few points - BTW very nice group - ALL NCO medals up to Warrant Officer are impressed with the recipient's rank and service number full stop. You have learned a myth about and variance for the MSM for regular service versus an 'in the field' immediate award which is a bit misleading as between 1916-28 they were all 'immediate' i.e. without a previous time in service before being eligible. As he has an Mid for mid June the MSM would not be for that action as multiple awards for any single action are not awarded. I'll check my MSM book as see if there is a notation against the award as being immediate. Now, if this medal does not have his name on it chances are you have one not awarded to him that has been erased and this would be considered a broken group.

  7. #7

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    A nice early award for 1916, but not for gallantry I'm afraid. The Aug-Nov bar would appear to be a later copy as it has no holes drilled for sewing it to the ribbon on the 1914 star. His service medals would not have been posted any earlier than 1922 and as late as the early 1930's given the numbers awarded, the MSM might have been separated before even getting his other medals. Many didn't sew up their bars either or even claim them, so they can be a mixed bag.

  8. #8
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    A cracking group and a pity the original clasp has gone missing over time. RE medals are much underrated as are other Corps medals.

    As for the MSM, according to The Great War Medal Collectors Companion all (except to foreigners) were published in the LG and those awarded for gallantry were prefaced in the LG as gallantry in the performance of military duty. The book goes on to say the MSM was redefined in Oct. 1916 as an award not in the face of the enemy and was often awarded for life saving, accidents, fires and explosions. The ribbon on Cpl. Rose's MSM has the added white stripe in the middle (Army Order 238 from Aug.1917), indicating he didn't receive it until late 1917 at the earliest or it's been changed/remounted at a later date.

    Great seeing them on the original ribbons and with all the paperwork.

    Tony

  9. #9

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    Yes very nice group and extra nice with the paperwork

  10. #10

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    Quote by asterperious View Post
    A nice early award for 1916, but not for gallantry I'm afraid. The Aug-Nov bar would appear to be a later copy as it has no holes drilled for sewing it to the ribbon on the 1914 star. His service medals would not have been posted any earlier than 1922 and as late as the early 1930's given the numbers awarded, the MSM might have been separated before even getting his other medals. Many didn't sew up their bars either or even claim them, so they can be a mixed bag.
    I did say in my original posting that the MSM is inscribed to Cpl Rose. In fact there is more information recorded on that medal than there is on the trio! As all the medals are correctly inscribed, they cannot be a broken group! The fact that the bar to the star is a replacement - or copy, depending on your viewpoint, is immaterial. It can be seen from the index card that this man was entitled to 'clasp & roses.' The bars were often lost and sometimes replaced.

    The medals were posted to Mr Henry Rose on 14th July 1923. Although I have no way of knowing which medals the package contained, it must have at the very least contained the 1914 star trio. But inside the envelope, and not mentioned to me by the dealer, were the small strips of ribbon (to make up a bar) for the War Medal, Victory Medal, and the MSM. Also enclosed was a miniature MID clasp.

    All four medals have been sewn to the clip with khaki cotton. When examined, it is apparent that the medals have been on the clasp for some considerable time. The 1914 star shows no signs of having the stitching tampered with, the thread being continuous through all the medals. The only way the sliding bar could have been attached was when the medals were mounted for wear. On close examination of the 1914 star ribbon, there are no signs of any bar ever having been attached by thread. I am aware of the repro bars doing the rounds, but I can only draw my own conclusions from what I see when I closely examine the medal group.
    Author of... 'Belfast Diaries: A Gunner In Northern Ireland'... 'A Tough Nut To Crack: Andersonstown.. Voices From 9 Battery Royal Artillery In Northern Ireland'... 'An Accrington Pal: The Diaries of Pte Jack Smallshaw, September 1914 To March 1919'.

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