Yes, most certainly a ww1 British brodie.Rimless type too..Very nice.Does it have a rubber ring in the liner?..the part in contact with your head?
There may also be some markings on the inside of the liner too.
As to value, no idea, sorry.more than £100 i would imagine.
"1916 home office war pattern raw edge brodie helmet"these were worn at the somme,value £150 upwards.very nice and collectible indeed.thanks for showing.MINNIE.
Thanks for your knowledge guys. But no it doesn't have a rubber ring in the liner. Do you think this is missing? The only other marks on the helmet were on the inside of the liner- there was, what looked like a very faded black box stamp but I couldn't make out what it said exactly. Cheers.
The ring is not missing.it was never there in the first place.the MK1 1916 with rim added in oct 1916 had the doughnut ring installed in the liner,regards minnie.
The helmet shell is an early rimless War Office Pattern. It has been either been relined with a MKI Liner and Chinstrap during the war(most likely) or manufactured with left over shell and new liner and chinstrap.
In any event this complete helmet would date no earlier than Summer 1916 and Helmets were refurbished through 1918 so hard to date.
The rubber donut came in mid 1917--so a good chnace the helmet dates before that.
In its original configuration (Full liner and two piece buckle chinstrap) the price would have been £700+ and original configuration are very rare as is the £150 is about right.
Hi, you are all slightly wrong. It is a Mk ID early 1917 pattern helmet, it had the edge ring originally, the ring is just missing, very common to loose these as they were on with a single flimsy spot weld - you can see the shadow line where it was. In late 1917 the rubber donut was added. The early 1916 war office pattern are quite different when you know what to look for. The finish is smooth, apple green to green blue in hue, when viewed from the top the shape of the bowl is slightly oval - shorter at the front and rear and wider on the sides, there are also discernable pressing marks making a washboard pattern on the lid around the bowl. The interior liner was a weak reaxne finger stlye next and the chin strap was thinner. Earlier bowls have been refitted with earlier liners so you do find 1916 bowls with later liners. The first 100,000 War Office helemts were a milder steel and gave poor ballistic protection, the later batches were pressed from manganese steel and were much harder(note that most of the nomeclature used to describe these helmets is made up by collectors and historians and are not found in Britsh literature ofthe time)
good primer here:
more here - the third image shows the war office liner style: http://www.greatwarcollection.nl/Html/Brodie.html
The maker and batch code place it mid 1917, HS 245 is Hadfiels sheffield steel lot 245:
FS, Thomas Firth and Sons (sept 15 thru 19)
HS, Hadfields Ltd. Jan 16 thru 1919
BS, W Beardmore & Co. Ltd. Jan 16 thru 19
MS, Miris Steel Co. Ltd March 16 thru 17
Until August 1916 mosty of this steel was supplied to Joseph Sankey and Son Ltd. for pressing into Helmet shape. The remaining 75,000 sheets went to Bleriot Ltd in London or Army & Navy Cooperative.
Sheffield Muntions committee suppliers
A) Helmet Manufacturer
D, James Dixon & Sons Dec 15 till ?
H, W Hutton & Sons Dec 15 till
HH, Harrison Bros. & Howson Ltd. Dec 15 till
M, J&J Maxfield & sons Dec 15 till
R, John Round & Sons 1916
V, W&E Viener Dec 15 till
A, Edgar Allen and Co. Ltd 16-18
F, Thomas Firth and Sons 16 till 18
O, Samuel Osborne & Co Ltd. 16 thru 18
V, Vickers Ltd 16-17
B, Bury's & Co. 16-18
Codes on helmets should read M/A That is Helmet made by J&J Maxfield & sons from steel supplied by Edgar Allen and Co. Ltd followed by a lot (heat) code for the steel.
Sheffield only produced small quantities a week, Edgar Allen and Co. Ltd was known to mark helmets with "Imperial".
Helmet manufacturers not part of the Sheffield Munitions Committee Group:
Army & Navy Co-operative Society Sept 1915 thru Jan 1916 (Not Marked)
Joseph Sankey & Sons Ltd. Oct 15 to Oct 16 (No marks except Steel suppliers)
Bleriot Ltd. May 1916 to October 1916 (No marks except Steel suppliers)
Hadfields Ltd. Aug 1916 to 1919 (Prior to Aug 1916 this firm only supplied steel no mark other than origianl Steel supplier mark) Aug 16 thru 19
W Beardmore & Co. Ltd. Aug 1916 thru 1918 (Prior to Aug 1916 this firm only supplied steel no mark other than origianl Steel supplier mark) Aug 16 thru 18
Miris Steel Co. (Prior to Aug 1916 this firm only supplied steel no mark other than origianl Steel supplier mark) Sept 16 thru 17.
Other marks not 100% identified:
FKS Possibly Thomas Firth & Son
M&S possibly Maxfield & Sons.
All research on manufacturers done by Marcus Cotton.
Your eyes are better than mine if you can see the shadow of where the ring was? If that is so then your correct that its a later war Helmet predating April/May 1917 --That's when the donut ring was introduced--Pattern sealed in April and manufacturing started sometime after--and post dating June 1916
JNDSAN--Does it look like a metal ring may have once been around the edge?
Don't try to date by use of the heat code--it's not known how that works as far as dating. Also repainting refurbished Helmet shells was common. Also, the shape of the bowl with all Great War Brodies (War Office and MKI) helmets was very similar with the Helmet being stamped round and the head part stamped oval giving the impression of shorter at back and front and wider at sides as can be seen in photos below.
Here are photos of Helmets in my collection--First one is a War Office Rimless with original liner and Chinstrap--still retaining smooth apple green finish.
This is the first iteration of MKI helmet as pattern sealed in June 1916. Note the addition of sanded Finsih, New liner and chinstrap and rim along edge.
This is the interior of the MKI as modified with addition of a rubber ring under the crown padding--Suggested by an Australian and started manufacture after April 1917.
All MI helmets originally had the paper instructions at the top like the first MKI produced above.
Last edited by Joe Sweeney; 11-05-2012 at 06:14 PM.
Hi, no, from what I can see it seems that there was never any metal ring around the edge. Thanks again to everyone for all of the information provided.