WW1 CEF 5th Brigade HQ Brodie Helmet

[birkie]

Hi all,
i'd like to share one of my more recent pick ups, a 2nd Division, 5th Brigade HQ infantry brodie. The maker's mark is a bit tough to read but looks to be BS 55, which I believe is W Beardmore & Co. Ltd., Jan. 1916 - 1919. There is no rim, the steel is somewhat "rippled" which is consistent with rimless models. I can't see any evidence of a rim ever being present on this helmet, no spot welds and no missing paint around the edges other than wear and tear. However, I'm open to comments and feedback on the "rimless" nature of this helmet. The leather strap near the rivet shows the soldier's as name W. Smth and not W. Smith ( could it be he mispelled his own name?). I'll dig around a bit for the research on Mr. Smth. I look forward to your comments.

cheers, Keith

[Jerry B]

Looks to be a great pick up and an original rimless as far as I can see, sweet.

[Mark K]

Hey Kieth another great lid nice to see it is a named flashed example looks to have most of its original textured paint and has a nice deep rich patina about it.

Regards Mark

[asterperious]

Very nice lid - altough everyone wants to believe their lids are 'rimless' as in made without one, the chances are high it is not, but rather lacking a rim. I suspect if one is to believe collector obsesion with 'rimless' i.e. 1915 era IIRC only about 50K made before modifications were made - there are more in collections than were ever manufactured! IMO It is a 1917 period helmet - looks reworked owing to the heavy paint on it. The metal rims really are weka an poorly spot welded and over the past 100 years it is easy for them to become seperated depending on use, storgae, play time etc. What is really nice and special about this one is the CDN battle flas on the 3 -9 O'Clock postion on the helmet. This was done briefly in late 1916/17 before CDN Corps HQ determined they'd prefer ALL CEF helemt markings on the front of the helmet in the 12 O'Clock postion. Most got repainted in that manner - so you have a rarity. If you can sort out the maker code there are lists that indicate when they were active stamping helmets.

[ruddersrangers44]

Hi its a rimmed mk1,not "The Steel Helmet Brodie 1915 War Office Pattern",the netted liner is the giveaway,this type of netted liner is what we usually see on nearly all WW1 British and US Brodie Helmets,the first pattern liner had six fold in flaps that all overlapped in the centre and was made from America cloth,sorry to disappoint you...............also notice how the leather chinstrap doesn't go under the liner where as the mk1 goes under and is held central under the rivet head.

[asterperious]

Yes, but some WD pattern shells were reworked and upgraded to Mk I standard though - also contributing to their rarity. Also, the early batch were all magnetic - simple test - if a magnet stick it's early, if not - later. Also the true 'rimless' is asymetircal and appears more to an oval shape witht he sides of the helmet wider than the sections to the fore and aft which are discernably shorter. Yours is a very symetrical i.e. round rim shape.

Here is some reserch done a while ago and published by Marcus Cotton that might help you deduce the possible steel supplier and/or the manufacturer:

"No specific works on Sheffield but here is some info from a researcher on Helmet makers.

This is what I have, you'll find that most marks are the Steel manufacturers and not necessarily the manufacturer of the Helmet:

Steel suppliers:

FS, Thomas Firth and Sons (sept 15 thru 19)
HS, Hadfields Ltd. Jan 16 thru 1919
BS, W Beardmore & Co. Ltd. Jan 16 thru 19
MS, Miris Steel Co. Ltd March 16 thru 17

Until August 1916 mosty of this steel was supplied to Joseph Sankey and Son Ltd. for pressing into helmet shape. The remaining 75,000 sheets went to Bleriot Ltd in London or Army & Navy Cooperative.


Sheffield Muntions committee suppliers

A) Helmet Manufacturer

D, James Dixon & Sons Dec 15 till ?
H, W Hutton & Sons Dec 15 till
HH, Harrison Bros. & Howson Ltd. Dec 15 till
M, J&J Maxfield & sons Dec 15 till
R, John Round & Sons 1916
V, W&E Viener Dec 15 till

cool.gif Steel Supplier
A, Edgar Allen and Co. Ltd 16-18
F, Thomas Firth and Sons 16 till 18
O, Samuel Osborne & Co Ltd. 16 thru 18
V, Vickers Ltd 16-17
B, Bury's & Co. 16-18

Codes on helmets should read M/A That is helmet made by J&J Maxfield & sons from steel supplied by Edgar Allen and Co. Ltd followed by a lot (heat) code for the steel.

Sheffield only produced small quantities a week, Edgar Allen and Co. Ltd was known to mark helmets with "Imperial".



Helmet manufacturers not part of the Sheffield Munitions Committee Group:

Army & Navy Co-operative Society Sept 1915 thru Jan 1916 (Not Marked)

Joseph Sankey & Sons Ltd. Oct 15 to Oct 16 (No marks except Steel suppliers)

Bleriot Ltd. May 1916 to October 1916 (No marks except Steel suppliers)

Hadfields Ltd. Aug 1916 to 1919 (Prior to Aug 1916 this firm only supplied steel no mark other than origianl Steel supplier mark) Aug 16 thru 19

W Beardmore & Co. Ltd. Aug 1916 thru 1918 (Prior to Aug 1916 this firm only supplied steel no mark other than origianl Steel supplier mark) Aug 16 thru 18

Miris Steel Co. (Prior to Aug 1916 this firm only supplied steel no mark other than origianl Steel supplier mark) Sept 16 thru 17.



Other marks not 100% identified:

MLS ?
FKS Possibly Thomas Firth & Son
M&S possibly Maxfield & Sons.

All research done by Marcus Cotton."

[birkie]

Great comments guys, thank you. I have checked the manufacturer stamp and can confirm that it is "BS 55" indicating W. Beardmore & Co. Ltd. steel supplier. I know the rimless lids are incredibly rare and I had no real serious expectations that this was an authentic rimless so I'm not disappointed. Asterperious, interesting comments about the rarity of the side flashing rather that the front of the helmet. I've never seen one before so I was quite thrilled to acquire this one. regards, Keith

[CampX]

Well I just learned 2 things from this thread..one is my rimless is not!!! the other is Dixon (pronounced Dison) that was famous for early fire arms bits ( not the guns but the stuff that went with them) did the lid thing.
Here are photos of what up to now I thought was my one and only rimless...thanks for bursting my bubble guys!!! LOL
Well I still have 5 or 6 WW1 Lids.
I only noticed the rim is missing, fallen off or removed, I tend to think it fell off
Now I know what to look for when looking for a rimless, not that it matters to me, I just buy WW1 Lids when I find them for a fair price regardless of condition..I do not get that anal about veriations..I just love the stuff

Dean O
Canada