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WWI Gor Blimey

Article about: Hi All, As a new member to the forum I wanted to introduce myself and thank you for your informative and interesting forum. With the centennial fast approaching this past year or I have trie

  1. #11

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    Good to know Will. I have had my nose buried in the Bodsworth book since this summer and the info included is amazing but not necessarily the last definitive resource on everything. What has impressed me are the period ads he includes that show what options and personal affectations were allowed by the British army. Seems officers almost had Carte Blanche for kit. Overwhelming to absorb and then try and use when making collecting decisions. Imperative to know the old materials and workmanship and even then you still may get screwed.
    The new 1914 book looks like a winner! The Bodsworth book has great info but very 2nd rate production quality for what you pay for! Soft bound and the photo quality piss poor. So, I was a bit disappointed.
    Last edited by Nigel Lesgate; 12-02-2013 at 09:51 PM.

  2. #12

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    [QUOTE=William1;1047140]Thanks Nigel, I like to help if I can. I've collected since the early 80s and had plenty of kit through my hands before faking and copying began in earnest.

    I differ from Bodsworth slightly on the description of the lining, actually two thickness of shirt material stitched together in a spiral so not really quilted.

    Also, many did not have a lining either. It was pretty haphazard inters of quality of material and the slight variances in construction, the colour of the cloth liner - if any - is varied as well. These were sort of rushed into production to satisy need, much like the Germans in the winter of '41/42 who were ill prepared for the ground conditions.

    The IWM has a few on line in their gallery - but no interior pictures, but you can see even from the few samples that there are many slight differences in stitching, cloth, shape etc. Buywyze has two that came form estates in their sold archive and neither has a liner.

    I have one also that has a 1920's Hollywood costume house ink stamp in it. It may or may not be original - I've never been able to decide. The Costumers had huge quantities of original items, especially webbing and kit, but also made things to fill in blanks. Mine is too well made IMO for a prop, and does conform to the construction of many known examples, but you never know. I got it in the 80's before reenactor fakes began to proliferate, but that doesn't make it unquestionably real.

    I agree with the comments about Bodsworth, it is a good collection of period pictures and adverts but his interpretation of many things leaves a lot to be desired and he repeats a number of collector myths through out with gout substantiating primary sources etc.etc. A good basic book, but hardly cannon. There really isn't one yet.

  3. #13

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    The new 1914 book I believe is just the first of 5 forthcoming volumns so it may be just what is needed to be of help. It will also help the fakers too...don't they all. Aster, can you post your 1920's cap?

  4. #14

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    I am with Will on the price £2200-2500. If I recall the one that sold for £2200 had the linig removed if it was the same one Will referred to. Officers Gor/Cor Blimeys are gusting £5-700 nowdays. Good luck and be prepared for a large hit on your wallet.

    Mark


    Quote by William1 View Post
    Personally I think you can spell it whichever way you like, it's only a slang term after all. The official name is "Cap, Winter Service Dress", and the pattern was introduced in November 1914.

    Prepare yourself for some disappointment as regards getting one of these. They were next to impossible to find 30 years ago and haven't got any easier since. The last genuine one I saw sold a couple of years ago for £2200, I kid you not. My suggestion would be to go for what's easiest to find and be prepared to accept something late war. Early war issue uniform and headgear is notoriously rare and most stuff that has survived is was given out in 1918 or 1919, usually on demob, but 1918 is still WW1. You can still find nice examples of the serge soft cap, introduced in 1916 for wear behind the lines. Ditto the final patt Brodie helmet, though they seem to have gone a bit mental recently.

    Good luck in any case. This stuff is getting harder and harder to find. Maybe the centenary will bring out a load of it, but then prices, which are already very high, will no doubt rise even further...

  5. #15
    jwp
    jwp is offline
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    This pic shows my grandfather at Rugeley camp 1916, check out the old corporal in the centre, looks like he is wearing one of these caps, with his walking stick I think he must be a wounded vet sent back to train the new recruits !,
    John.Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #16

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    Quote by jwp View Post
    This pic shows my grandfather at Rugeley camp 1916, check out the old corporal in the centre, looks like he is wearing one of these caps, with his walking stick I think he must be a wounded vet sent back to train the new recruits !,
    John.Click image for larger version. 

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    Indeed it is john.

    A wonderful cap to find if you can and can than afford to pay for it, sadly way beyond my budget unless I get very lucky.

    A lot of good discussion posted here.
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  7. #17

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    I just bought Campaign 1914 by Chris Pollendine, so I hope it is as good as has been implied.
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  8. #18

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    Bravo lad! Give us a review and maybe some shots when you get it. I saw it on Amazon UK. Also, Regimentals is peddling on their site.

  9. #19

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    Quote by Nigel Lesgate View Post
    Bravo lad! Give us a review and maybe some shots when you get it. I saw it on Amazon UK. Also, Regimentals is peddling on their site.
    Hi Nigel,

    It was amazon I bought it from and they show a few sample pages on there if you click on the book cover. It looks good and hopefully will be good. I had a look at the other book you had mentioned, but it is quite pricey, though it has a lot more pages in it than the one I bought. you can't beat a good book when it comes to being able to just sit down with it and study it.
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  10. #20

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    All,


    The WSD Cap was introduced with pattern 8148/1914 (NOV 1914) that is a bit of a guess datewise to correspond with other pattern numbers sealed during that month. The pattern number did not have a date associated in the RACD pattern books.

    For the BEF--No instructions were found indicating how this cap was to be issued during the first winter of the war. However, General Routine Order 640, February 1915, does mention the winter cap. The first issue instructions for this cap were published in General Routine Order 1274, 11 October 1915, which mandated the winter scale of issue for clothing. It was intended for troops employed in active areas. Those in England were still mandated to wear the Service Dress cap, although issue of the winter cap was made to those proceeding overseas. Even troops assigned permanently to the Lines of Communication in France were excluded from its issue. These troops were to continue to wear the Service Dress cap. During the summer months the Service Dress cap also remained the official wear of all troops although the winter cap can be seen in photos obviously taken during summer months. Its continued authorization for wear in France was continued in General Routine Order 1201, 11 October 1915, which called out the winter scale of issue for the winter of 1915/16. Its issue officially continued until the spring of 1916 when it disappeared from the clothing scales in France although occasionally seen in photos post dating GRO 1201.


    It is not true that a chinstrap was not used on cap unless a soldier added. A chinstrap was introduced for this cap during the summer of 1915 with the approval of pattern 8446/1915 on 26 July 1915. It was fixed on the cap using hook and eyes. Old caps were easily retrofitted and new ones came with the strap.

    Below is my WSD cap.









    These things are highly reproduced--but keep in mind that real ones are very well made with even stitching etc.

    Here is also the companion Waterproof cover.



    This was introduced with pattern 8180/1914, 22 December 1914. General Routine Order 640, February 1915, states, “‘Covers, cap, waterproof’ for use with ‘caps, winter, service dress,’ are now available.

    I published quite a detailed article on the evolution of British Great war Caps in Militaria Magazine (France) in issues 242--Caps Part 1 and 244--Caps Part 2 (Sept and Nov 2005)

    Hope this helps.

    Joe Sweeney

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