Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse - Help with maker

[Martin3]

Hello Gents,

I have a few unlabeled EK's in the Rikers that I try to determine, I hope you can help me out!
I am creating a small database in Excel, so I want to be sure to do it flawlessly.
And I am an uncertain person, I must admit...

Am I correct that this one is a Steinhauer & Lück, second frame, no lug?

Thanks for your attention, much appreciated!

Martin

[manclino]

Unfortunately, it's not Steinhauer & Lück, it's Walter & Henlein PKZ 109.
Robert

[Martin3]

Hi Robert,

Oh yes, the low dates... Overlooked that!
But at least the frame and core were from S&L dies, weren't they?

Thanks for your time; I am happy with a 109! I should have recognized it, as I have one already.
I think I also might have two W&H issue packages, so this will make another complete set.

Thanks for the trouble, I have a few more that will be posted soon.

Best wishes,
Martin

[manclino]

This cross pattern (frame and core) is referred to as S&L design. But whether the dies came directly from the S&L company is difficult to determine. You would need commercial documents confirming this fact, and no one has seen such as yet. And you send pictures of your crosses, we will try to identify them on the forum.
Robert

[Martin3]

I was wondering: is it a good idea to add the maker to the title of this thread, for reference? Or is title-modifying undesirable at War Relics?

A few extra pictures of the crosses with the packages. I now see why I didn't think of 109. First thing I often do is keep the frame arms next to my known crosses, looking for exact measurements. These two frames differ a lot! So that method is far from watertight.

I indeed had 2 issue bags, one with the thin designation, the other the fat font.

[manclino]

But I will add from myself that the cross on the left (with the set) is W&H with the so-called frame #. Look at the inside angles (next to swaz).
Robert

[Martin3]

Hi Robert,
Yes, that is what I am going to do. In both my EK2 books only one type of 109 is described, none mentions the different frames.
As I have started to describe all the pieces I have at this moment, these are important details!
For quite some time I bought every cross that was original and affordable at that moment, but I think it is time for me to take it a little more seriously. For instance: I think I bought four '24' crosses a few months ago... That is a little overdone with so many other makers I still need.

[manclino]

There are five variants of PKZ 109 crosses (frame-core). And when it comes to AdHP PKZ 24, I also have 5 variants with different markings on the suspension loop and ring. But someone counted that there will be 45-50 variants of all combinations. Also a lot ahead of you if you decide to complete
Robert