Need Help! Question about the relic Eisernes Kreuz 1. Klasse 1939

**wtxh7** · 05-20-2023, 10:49 PM

Hi everyone, this is tim from usa, new to the forum. Big fan of this field and just started my collection for 3 months. Question about this relic EK1. I saw it on a relic site and want to know if it's true or not
None of the manufacturer's marks.Thanks for any advice. Have read some pages about EK1, but still can't tell if it's true, so I came to the forum for help.

These pictures are all of one EK1

Need Help! Question about the relic Eisernes Kreuz 1. Klasse 1939

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 05-20-2023 10:49 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**MAP** · 05-21-2023, 04:40 AM

Welcome. The EK guys should be around shortly to comment

**wtxh7** · 05-21-2023, 05:58 AM

Thank you Super.

**manclino** · 05-21-2023, 08:21 AM

This Eisernes Kreuz 1 Klasse is attributed to Walter & Henlein PKZ 109. The problem is that this manufacturer never had a PKZ/LDO "license" to produce first-class crosses, and 99% of these crosses flow (dug out of the ground) from the Czech Republic, supposedly from the site after the location of this manufacturer's factory. According to some collectors, this is a post-war production.
Robert

**wtxh7** · 05-21-2023, 03:05 PM

Very pertinent comment! thank you robert
I just think his frame looks so new!

**Adrian** · 05-21-2023, 07:16 PM

The frame doesn't seem to match the deterioration of the core, that's for sure. I would be sceptical about this. Iron cores will rust faster than the frames but this frame and core look too much at odds with each other. The screwback disc is also looking decidedly mismatched. If these were together in the ground, why is there no evidence on the back of the frame? I wouldn't be buying this as a relic or otherwise.

**wtxh7** · 05-21-2023, 09:59 PM

by Adrian

The frame doesn't seem to match the deterioration of the core, that's for sure. I would be sceptical about this. Iron cores will rust faster than the frames but this frame and core look too much at odds with each other. The screwback disc is also looking decidedly mismatched. If these were together in the ground, why is there no evidence on the back of the frame? I wouldn't be buying this as a relic or otherwise.

YES INDEED! I think this is really strange. If it is dug up, the back of this medal looks too new. At the same time, there is no manufacturer's mark. I guess it is very unusual in this type of EK1

**Adrian** · 05-21-2023, 10:18 PM

Not all EKs were marked, it's not unusual so that in itself should not be used to authenticate an award.

It's not uncommon for known fakes to be aged artificially, buried to hide the fact they are fakes. They then appear on the market as being 'found in Stalingrad' or in Normandy or 'close to the location of Hitler's bunker'.

**wtxh7** · 05-21-2023, 10:49 PM

by Adrian

Not all EKs were marked, it's not unusual so that in itself should not be used to authenticate an award.

It's not uncommon for known fakes to be aged artificially, buried to hide the fact they are fakes. They then appear on the market as being 'found in Stalingrad' or in Normandy or 'close to the location of Hitler's bunker'.

The "'close to the location of Hitler's bunker" made me laugh so hard

**manclino** · 05-22-2023, 08:40 AM

On the Polish military forum, the subject of these crosses has been discussed many times. Of course, ratings vary. There is a version that the crosses were manufactured by Walter & Henlein for another recipient, but for some reason they were not delivered as a result of the end of hostilities and therefore buried. But these are just hypotheses with which you can agree or disagree.
The cross is relatively easy to recognize due to the characteristic technological hole located near the stabilizing tab (in the version with a screw). There was also a version with a pin. Below are two versions in better condition. It is worth paying attention to the internal angles of the frame because they are in the # version and this one is known for second-class crosses from this manufacturer.
Robert