Me109E Wartungklappe Hatch LW Fly Tag Info Needed

[Kilroy Was Here]

Hello, I purchased these 2 items recently. One is supposedly a Wartungklappe Hatch from a ME-109E fighter plane. The seller indicated it was the maintenance hatch right next to the cannon port on the leading edge of wing. Is this correct??

Why did they use only 2 aluminum rivits on the latch? Maybe the 2 rivits, and 2,000 other steel rivits was too much weight, a weight saving measure maybe?

Also an orange Luftwaffe "Fly Tag" used for a pass to fly out of "Stalingrad" pocket or areas in Operation Barbarossa 41-43? He stated there were 5 different colors meaning different things about the soldier to be flying.

Are these facts true, and is this a real tag?

I have seen many tags in pictures, but this one appears to made of a type of galvanized steel you can see part of.

Do they fake these tags? Considering the hundreds of other Luftwaffe airplane parts and relics the seller has for sale, I do not think he would sell me a fake fly tag. I hope!!!

Regards, Steve

[VERSUCH]

Hi Steve,I am 99% sure its not Bf109e,I have been through the
parts manual and the repair manual,and also tech drawings.
Nothing of that shape,also most inspection panels,have
a circular release button.
The metal rivets could be a qive away for a late war item,
as alloy was a scarce resource.
The metal wing device I believe was attached to most Luftwaffe
parts for easy identification.IE spare parts etc.
I doubt that the powers would allow you to jump ship at Stalingrad
with nothing more than a stamped metal plate.
You would need typed orders from a very high ranked officer.
Hope this helps
Regards Mike
ps the messerschmitt bf109e by AERO DETAIL VOL 1 is a very good Reference.

[Kilroy Was Here]

Hi Steve,I am 99% sure its not Bf109e,I have been through the
parts manual and the repair manual,and also tech drawings.
Nothing of that shape,also most inspection panels,have
a circular release button.
The metal rivets could be a qive away for a late war item,
as alloy was a scarce resource.
The metal wing device I believe was attached to most Luftwaffe
parts for easy identification.IE spare parts etc.
I doubt that the powers would allow you to jump ship at Stalingrad
with nothing more than a stamped metal plate.
You would need typed orders from a very high ranked officer.
Hope this helps
Regards Mike
ps the messerschmitt bf109e by AERO DETAIL VOL 1 is a very good Reference.

Hi Mike, you may be correct, but I disagree, at least about the tag. Luftwaffe Fly tags were used in Stalingrad, and I think elsewhere during that offensive for evacuation of soldiers.

They needed this tag to board aircraft. They came in 5-6 different colors. This is what I have read and learned, but could it be wrong info. I do not think this tag is for aircraft part identification.

Here is the pic from seller where the hatch is supposed to go on the ME-109E. Shape looks very similar to me, even though hatch is missing in the pic it appears. Lets see what others have to say about the hatch and tag.

Regards, Steve

[VERSUCH]

Hi Steve, sorry about the delay..just mixing up a batch of humble
pie.
I have the following to offer,it is discribed as a fairing cover for the
older MG17,that would make it rivetted on.......BUT
page 115 of Messerchmitt BF109 recougnition manual,shows
the fairing in place.....with a clip very like yours.
Now the insult to injury ,the tags,when I checked,they are not
even the same shape.
Next time I may take a little longer to reply,when I know what
I talking about......
Regards If you are still talking to me!
Mike

[Kilroy Was Here]

Hi Steve, sorry about the delay..just mixing up a batch of humble
pie.
I have the following to offer,it is discribed as a fairing cover for the
older MG17,that would make it rivetted on.......BUT
page 115 of Messerchmitt BF109 recougnition manual,shows
the fairing in place.....with a clip very like yours.
Now the insult to injury ,the tags,when I checked,they are not
even the same shape.
Next time I may take a little longer to reply,when I know what
I talking about......
Regards If you are still talking to me!
Mike

Hi Mike, no problem. I like to hear all opinions and comments, and especially info. BTW their were also round Luftwaffe "Fly Tags".

Maybe the hatch is late war variation. I know nothing about german aircraft, so you are up on me in that field if you have books and manuals.

Do you know if the leading edges of the ME109E were steel? This hatch is steel, which is odd to me.

Regards, Steve

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Steve, I too would welcome some more discussion about these tags. I have heard the Stalingrad evac story, but I must admit I am a little skeptical on the story. I know the tags are original, just the exact use I am not 100% convinced about.

Sorry I cannot help on the 109 part.

Cheers, Ade.

[Kilroy Was Here]

Hello Ade, I would too. Maybe someone will have some detailed info that can be documented or proven.
I have seen round and square, and red, yellow, orange, (like mine) black, and white tags so far. All sellers/diggers/archeologists say the same thing, Except for the number of colors they came in.

Regards, Steve

[VERSUCH]

Hi Steve, your part could be the following
flugel(wing)links(left) 93 handlockdeckel.....109-518
fugel " rechts(right)92 verschlubdeckel.....109-519
these covers should only appear after the E-1,which was the
last to have 2 MG17 fitted to the wings.The later model have
the MG FF 20mm cannon in the wing,but not in the same
spot!
The leading edge should be alloy which is rolled and heat treated.
The your cover being steel should mean its wrong,but thinking
about it (not like before!),the leading edge is a critical item,it must
hold its shape despite all loads imposed on it.As any distortion,or even dents can have a nasty effect on the aerodynamics,ie one wing may stall at given speed before the other,not what you want
when trying to manoeuvre.
So a cheap and strong fix would be steel pressed to the correct
shape,the only thing is it seens to be quite a weak attachment,
to have to endure air pressure ,wing flex etc.
I would have believed it would have been secured by many rivets to the leading edge....but as we have seen...maybe not!
Cheers MIKE

[ian_]

I had the problem solved for a moment. Take your hatch to Duxford (where the photo was taken) hop over the fence and see if it fits. Then I saw where you live. Back to the drawing board as they say...

[Kilroy Was Here]

I had the problem solved for a moment. Take your hatch to Duxford (where the photo was taken) hop over the fence and see if it fits. Then I saw where you live. Back to the drawing board as they say...

HaHa, I'll put it on my list of things to do when I finally make my first trip across the pond. Maybe someone will know before then, and I can pack 5 pair of extra underwear in it's place. I'll need them when I go to Amsterdam.

Regards, Steve