From a Spitfire crash site.

**matteo** · 07-25-2009, 04:59 PM

Some idea about these parts? Them came from a site where airplane and dead pilot were find 13 may 1944 but crash happen some time before. Any help to identify will be appreciate. Thanks.

Some evidence of crash

Researcher Daniele, Vittorio, Mario

30008 4063

AGS N°1540/K

ENGINE STARTING PLUG 12 V

SS 38 329 46

C.. AN AUD.. CALL YO.. LIGHTS.. HORN IS.. THROTT..

67247 30041/33 30050 35 56

RELIEF VALVE Type FBN/A/70 Blow off 18/20 LBS VACUUM 3'' HG

7,62mm CP 1942 WI

20mm RH 1942 or 1943 20 MM, P.C.O. 1942 20 MM-M21, B.P.C. 20 MM M21A1

...261732 ...169SHT ISSUE 2 LH ..NNFR

Fragments: Some idea?

Some idea about these objects? The fuselage is khaki colour.

The long steel tool was used after crash to cut the big part of airplane to sell alluminium. Im not sure the ring was a airplane part. Some idea?

**Steve T** · 07-25-2009, 06:51 PM

Hey Matteo

Some nice finds. I can help with some of it.....

11th picture down = 20mm disintegrating belt links

7.62 cartridges = Always referred to as .303 calibre (inches)

CP = Crompton Parkinson, Doncaster and the WI I think means they were armour piercing (but i always thought this was just W and not WI)

The rest of the pictures show all sorts of bits of airframe and engine but nothing I have the expertise in identifying. However, I know 2 guys who frequent this forum who specialise in Spitfire crash sites so hopefully they can help

Judging by the fragmentation of the pieces, the damage to the cartridge cases and the 20mm stuck upright in a tree root....the poor chap must've hit the ground at a fair old lick. God rest his soul.

Steve T

**ssg keay** · 07-27-2009, 07:32 AM

The beige color could indicate a Mk VB trop, so a desert version, but this is only a guess. With exception of the Beaufighter and the Spit, I do not know to many other planes that used the dual caliber 303/20mm combination. Does anyone know of hand if Norman Franks' books about Fighter Command Losses have crashes listed in Italy? Danny

**VERSUCH** · 07-27-2009, 10:07 AM

Hi Matteo,is a town nearby and is the crash north or south etc?
also do you have an approx date for the crash?

Regards Mike

**ian_** · 07-27-2009, 07:37 PM

Exciting stuff Matteo! Lots of identifiable pieces. The 300 part number denotes Spitfire and the combination of .303 and .5 ammo means it is a Mark IXe or a Mk XVIe at the earliest, I'll have to dig a bit deeper to find out about the later marks. The first piece of wreckage is an access door from the bottom outer wing, the red engine start plug is the cover for the trolly accumulater to start the aircraft on the ground. These were common to all marks of Spitfire. The part number on the next piece, SS might help identify the mark of Spitfire. The plastic label probably refers to a safety device on the throttle. If you throttled back too far, without having lowered your wheels a horn sounded. A lot of pilots landed without their wheels down! Next parts are from radiator and undercarriage. The relief valce is from around the engine 'somewhere'.The thin rivetted tube is the internal structure fom the fabric covered rudder or elevators at the back of the plane. The manufacturers label might say LH (left hand) INNER. I'll get a bit of help with this one! Second from last photo is an access panel from the main spar inside the wing. The shepherd's crook shaped pin is for locking a magazine to one of the guns. The final ring looks like a pin for shutting the side of the wagon the wreckage was taken away in. A bit more book work on the label and the SS part number should narrow down the type of Spitfire. Thanks for posting.

**ian_** · 07-28-2009, 01:30 AM

I really should look at the pictures. 20mm cases not .5 inch. Doh. Could be anything from a Vb onwards. Much more of a challenge.

**matteo** · 07-28-2009, 08:16 AM

by ian_

Exciting stuff Matteo! Lots of identifiable pieces. The 300 part number denotes Spitfire and the combination of .303 and .5 ammo means it is a Mark IXe or a Mk XVIe at the earliest, I'll have to dig a bit deeper to find out about the later marks. The first piece of wreckage is an access door from the bottom outer wing, the red engine start plug is the cover for the trolly accumulater to start the aircraft on the ground. These were common to all marks of Spitfire. The part number on the next piece, SS might help identify the mark of Spitfire. The plastic label probably refers to a safety device on the throttle. If you throttled back too far, without having lowered your wheels a horn sounded. A lot of pilots landed without their wheels down! Next parts are from radiator and undercarriage. The relief valce is from around the engine 'somewhere'.The thin rivetted tube is the internal structure fom the fabric covered rudder or elevators at the back of the plane. The manufacturers label might say LH (left hand) INNER. I'll get a bit of help with this one! Second from last photo is an access panel from the main spar inside the wing. The shepherd's crook shaped pin is for locking a magazine to one of the guns. The final ring looks like a pin for shutting the side of the wagon the wreckage was taken away in. A bit more book work on the label and the SS part number should narrow down the type of Spitfire. Thanks for posting.

Many thanks for your informations. Please, if you have some IIWW age or modern photos of parts you quoted please post so I can understand better. A question about .303 bullets: Mg gun of Spitfire send down bullets after firing or preserve them in the wings? I ask because I find fired bullets on the crash site so I can also think they were not of airplane. However I also find some bullets with iron rings so I can assume them were of a mg gun for airplane because that for infantry have not iron ring but textil rings. It is correct? Thanks again.

**Steve T** · 07-28-2009, 10:09 AM

The Spitfire ejected both spent cartridges and the disintegrating links through apertures on the base of the wings.

The standard .303 round could have been used with a cloth belt or disintegrating belt by the army so your finds may not necessarily be from the aircraft.

Are you sure the rounds with the metal ring on them are 303's and not .30 calibre ? The base will give it away and 30cals are taller than 303s.

Have a look here...

M1919 Browning machine gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Steve T

**ian_** · 07-28-2009, 03:59 PM

Here is the position of the engine starting plug cover, underneath the exhaust on the side of the engine. I'll try and scan some others for you Matteo.

**matteo** · 07-30-2009, 11:40 AM

by Steve T

The Spitfire ejected both spent cartridges and the disintegrating links through apertures on the base of the wings.

The standard .303 round could have been used with a cloth belt or disintegrating belt by the army so your finds may not necessarily be from the aircraft.

Are you sure the rounds with the metal ring on them are 303's and not .30 calibre ? The base will give it away and 30cals are taller than 303s.

Have a look here...

M1919 Browning machine gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Steve T

Thanks. I know difference between 303 amd 30. That we find are surely 303. However I note that fired 303 have not iron belt but unfired 303 have iron belt. I not know a machine gun of 303 for infantry that used a iron belt. However I have not competence in this field.