Silverware Purported to be from Hitler's Train (Amerika), and Goring's Train - Fake?

[MisaRisa87]

Hello! I have the opportunity to purchase the below silverware, silverware supposedly taken from the Amerika, Hitler's private train, and from Goring's train. This is a follow-up to my other thread, of signatures that are very likely to be fake, which was purchased from the same vendor. I am concerned that these are likely to also not be valid. One of the main issues is, these are plated silver (90), which seems to be relatively easy to fake. My understanding, as well, is that the higher-ups would have likely used pure silver utensils, not the plated. Kindly let me know your thoughts to the best of your ability.

Silverware (DR from Hitler's Train, silver plated 90, marked 225 // DR from Goring's Train, silver plated 90, marked 233 & 243):






Picture purchased that is unlikely to be real:

[GlennAgain]

Save your money, friend...All I see here are Fake signatures and Reichsbahn Silverware - I see no connection to any major personality...

[MisaRisa87]

Glenn:

Thank you for your response! From what I gather, the numbered notation is supposed to signify the berthing car on the train - 225 on Hitlers, and the other two from Goring's. This is based on what I am seeing with Tom Wittmann's collector website, and not an actual reference book, which I do not have at the moment.

[GlennAgain]

If this Silverware is from the same seller that sold you the -Obvious- fake signatures, then I say again - Save your money, Friend...

[MisaRisa87]

An apt point - thanks Glenn. I'll investigate other ways to purchase authentic silverware.

[GlennAgain]

Such items are highly-faked, easily embellished. These dubious items are not a wise investment...Even the most seasoned collectors here on the Forum typically stay away from this sort of "Exotica"...

[Rakkasan187]

Misa,

I can only strongly echo what Glen has said about saving your money. I have a reference book that details Hitlers train and the silverware and tableware that was used. Although there are some similarities with the images you posted and the examples in the book that I have provided below, I would still remain very cautious. Without very direct and clear provenance I would not invest a large sum of money unless I was 100% certain.

Also keep in mind that the fakers also purchase the same reference books, and they can replicate very closely to the originals so therefore you must also use caution.

You may want to see about purchasing a copy of this book (as well as the author's other books) regarding crockery and silverware of the Third Reich.

"The Special Trains of Hitler, Goring et al" Their History and collectibles, by James A. Yannes.

Smitty

[TWS]

Such items are highly-faked, easily embellished. These dubious items are not a wise investment...Even the most seasoned collectors here on the Forum typically stay away from this sort of "Exotica"...

I don't think I could have said it better. Third Reich silverware/tableware is a stinking cesspool of fakery. Fortunately for me, I never had any interest in such items. Rather, I have observed from a distance all of the shenanigans that goes on in this category of collectibles. A visit to Gerhard Windbeil's tables at the SOS or MAX would illustrate the point quite well.

[MisaRisa87]

Thank you all for your input. I'll pass on these items. I appreciate your time with this.

[DavidRF43]

Misa,

I can only strongly echo what Glen has said about saving your money. I have a reference book that details Hitlers train and the silverware and tableware that was used. Although there are some similarities with the images you posted and the examples in the book that I have provided below, I would still remain very cautious. Without very direct and clear provenance I would not invest a large sum of money unless I was 100% certain.

Also keep in mind that the fakers also purchase the same reference books, and they can replicate very closely to the originals so therefore you must also use caution.

You may want to see about purchasing a copy of this book (as well as the author's other books) regarding crockery and silverware of the Third Reich.

"The Special Trains of Hitler, Goring et al" Their History and collectibles, by James A. Yannes.

Smitty

Interestingly, on page 206-207 of Yannes's Encyclopedia of 3rd Reich Tableware, he has a tablespoon with the Bruckman locomotive and 243 stamp that matches the patten of the fork shown.

Your best bet would be to look at other examples of this online from different sites and see if the monogram and maker's marks line up with these pieces.