Post Your ORIGINAL WWI Allied Forces Metal & Bullion Wings/Badges!

**Steven M** · 09-04-2009, 10:18 PM

Thanks very much for posting. Do you have a straight on shot of it?

Brindlereo · 09-04-2009, 10:32 PM

Not sure if these are military, but they appear to be of period and they are bullion

Thanks

Mark

**Steven M** · 09-04-2009, 10:51 PM

by Brindlereo

Not sure if these are military, but they appear to be of period and they are bullion

Thanks

Mark

Mark, great photos, and very nice set of wings. This is a very interesting pattern and reminds me of the instructor line of wings which lacked any shield in the center. My other impression is that they may be related in some way to civilian pilot instructors as well. Am I correct in seeing A.S.A or H.S.A and not "USA" above the wing?

The incorporation of these tiny silver washers would tell me "France" based on what I have seen up to this point. Any backgrounf on the piece?

Brindlereo · 09-04-2009, 10:59 PM

I believe it to be A.S.A and I have no history on the piece. I bought them as part of a misc group. they were marked with a sticker as WW1 era pilot wings

Brindlereo · 09-04-2009, 11:00 PM

wow, I typed A.S.A. and it posted as something totally different

**Steven M** · 09-04-2009, 11:04 PM

by Brindlereo

wow, I typed A.S.A. and it posted as something totally different

Mark,

Same thing happened to me. I ended up having to type a period between each of the letters as you did...very odd???

Again, thanks for posting and I'll see if I can dig up something in one of my reference books.

Brindlereo · 09-04-2009, 11:32 PM

There is a similar pair on WW2wings.com that are unidentified

**Steven M** · 09-04-2009, 11:52 PM

by Brindlereo

There is a similar pair on WW2wings.com that are unidentified

Mark,

That is Bob Schwarts' site, and is good reference area. I am starting to lean more in the direction of some type of civilian flight school used to train military aviation cadets. There were many, many stateside flight schools in the 20's and 30's and innumerable variations of insignia and wings existed. The washers still puzzle me because as I said, I attribute that to being French (mostly because I have seen these used on attributed/identified French made uniforms in WWI period photos). However, I am not aware of any civilian run flight instruction schools overseas. The instruction was carried out of one of the many Aviation Instruction Centers where military officers qualified as pilots administered the instruction.

**BEAST** · 09-07-2009, 11:46 AM

Hi folks,
I have posted these elsewhere before, but thought I would put them here to get more opinions. When I first posted these, I was sure one was original and the othr fake. Now after reading all of the posts concerning WWI US wings I am sure that 1) Both of these are original or 2) neither is original or 3) one of these is original and the other is fake!

So any help will always be appreciated!

**Steven M** · 09-07-2009, 05:35 PM

Hi Erick,

Thanks for posting. Here is my opinion based on wings that I have handled, studied and observed in publications.

First, let's address the most obvious element of both wings that tend to be a source of concern in determining whether wings are of the period...the thread used to define/form shoulder and feather details. I personally have no issue with the use of thread over the lower portion of the wings to simulate feathering in some cases, but I usually like to take other points of detail and fineness of work into consideration when trying to determine originality.

In Terry Morris' book (page 16, wing WB-14), there is a wing that is still affixed to the tunic of one Lt. Jerome Keith. You may remember that I had an aviation tunic that created an uproar on another site because of the thread over the bullion on the wing? The wing on that tunic was identical to the one on Keith's tunic in every way. Dark brown thread was used to form the feathers on the wings, but the shoulders were finely detailed in bullion alone with no thread defining elements of the shoulder. Additionally, there was a broad bullion leading top edge of the wing and shoulder and finished quite nicely. I still contend that they are period originals based on the overall quality and construction technique.

** Note: thread over bullion technique was extensively used on CBI wings in WWII and are considered as 100% original. I mention this because the shortcut construction method seems to have formed the basis for later reproduction wings of both WWI and WWII time periods coming out of Asian countries.

That being said, now on to your examples.

First wing:

1. The thread over the lower portion was places at random increments, with not much effort in trying to establish a uniform width of feathering.

2. There is no leading edge bullion to create a finished or defined look to the upper part of each wing.

3. There is no outline bullion used around the shield.

4. The overall "loose" appearance of construction.

For these reasons, I do not believe that this is a wing of the period.

Second wing:

This one is very tough. By the photos, it appears that this example is of much higher quality, and the bullion is tightly applied. Here are my concerns about this example.

1. The design of the shield is of the French style, while the actual "feathering" of wing is of US design, the leading edge bullion is something commonly found on French made wings of this style. Additionally, the shoulder area also appears to be of the US style of the period. So it would seem that this one is a hybrid of sorts. This in itself is not an automatic disqualification in my mind as I have seen more bizarre examples in period photos. Styles were copied and incorporated in various designs all of the time.

2. I must admit that there are elements of this wing that I do like, but the thread over that shoulder is really giving me cause for doubt. What is interesting however is that the black thread forming the feathering cannot be seen on the reverse, and it is finely applied with much effort to appear evenly spaced. But the thread over the shoulder can be seen on the reverse. Perhaps added later by the wearer to attempt to add more definition??

In summation concerning this wing, I am honestly split in my opinion. In this case from my point of view based on what I know to this point, this example would be the cause of lost sleep...I think I would place it in the "slightly possible" category for now.

I don't know if I helped any, and if I made things "clear as mud", forgive me. But this is as good as I can do for you. Hopefully some others with experience in this area will chime in.