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Haus Wachenfeld Bricks?

Article about: I'm not exactly sure if this is the correct area to post this, but I really wanted to start a discussion on this subject. A little while back I received an eBay gift card for my birthday. Th

  1. #1

    Default Haus Wachenfeld Bricks?

    I'm not exactly sure if this is the correct area to post this, but I really wanted to start a discussion on this subject.

    A little while back I received an eBay gift card for my birthday. The dollar amount on the card wasn't much, but I was still very appreciative of it. Due to the amount on the card I was only browsing for smaller/less expensive items. In the end I ended up purchasing an item that most of you will probably roll your eyes at.

    I'm sure a good deal of you guys have seen the rather intriguing listings on eBay for pieces of brick/stone from various historic TR sites. I've always looked over these listings briefly, but never gave them the time of day until recently. After a bit of research I ended up finding out that the guy who sells these items is actually a member of this forum. He goes by the name 'copperpot' and his forum name is the same as his eBay profile name. Back in 2013 he made a post where he showed his finds from the Obersalzburg. You can see the thread here Obersalzberg Relics Oddly enough it appears he hasn't been active on the forum since that post in 2013.

    Since I only had a small amount of cash on my eBay gift card I said 'What the heck' and bought one of his so called 'Haus Wachenfeld' brick fragments. Looking back on it I probably should have just bought a WHW tinnie or something else instead, but now here I am with a GEN-U-INE Hitler brick!

    All jokes aside, I was wondering what the other members here think about these types of items. Some of the pieces for sale alongside these bricks are ridiculous to say the least. For example bundles of twigs taken from Bormann's tree! I currently have the brick fragment in one of my display cabinets. Is it actually from Haus Wachenfeld?? Well.. I don't think I'll ever know for sure. For all I know it could have been picked up from a random construction site.

    I am by no way trying to call out or defame this 'Copperpot' fellow. I just simply want to get some thoughts from the other members here.

    Haus Wachenfeld Bricks?Haus Wachenfeld Bricks?Haus Wachenfeld Bricks?Haus Wachenfeld Bricks?

  2. #2

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    Seeing other bricks from the same location would help in authentication. Its a hard call..but hopefully someone else will chime in if they also have one of these type of brick pieces.

    Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  3. #3
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    Did the brick pass the black light test?

    Seriously, I think it would be impossible to confirm whether the brick was ever part of Haus Wachenfeld or later the Berghof itself for that matter. As copperpot pointed out in one of their posts (Obersalzberg Relics), "what remains of Hitlers Berghof and the foundations [are] buried under tons of rubble from other demolished sites[.]"

    This is accurate and as parts of Haus Wachenfeld were incorporated into the Berghof when that was constructed, it would be rather difficult to isolate any Haus Wachenfeld ruins from Berghof ruins. Except for the Berghof retaining wall and I believe that was constructed of concrete, not brick. So who knows what structure the "Haus Wachenfeld bricks" were actually a part of even if they were found on the site?

    Copperpot's first post mentioned being open to trades for such items, so there was an additional motive in posting them and not just in displaying claimed artifacts. Copperpot also mentioned "authenticity and printed provenance" but never gave specifics on what they were, nor showed any of the "old maps and legends etc" they used in surveying the site, no known photos or video of the recovery, and no known experience. There are some authorities on the Berghof that have established credibility (and do not sell or trade claimed artifacts) but copperpot is an unknown.

    No offense intended towards copperpot at all and I suppose it simply depends on whom and what one is willing to believe (and perhaps most importantly wants to believe). In applying objective standards though and based on what is known so far, it does not seem very promising that the brick is authentic as claimed.

  4. #4
    MAP
    MAP is offline
    ?

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    Beyond authenticity there is the issue of removing items from historical sites.

    What if tourists started taking stones from the Acropolis? Or Angkor Wat. (They do btw and it is a serious chrome if caught...).

    If everyone did it pretty soon there would be nothing left
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  5. #5

  6. #6

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    Well to be honest, and I think you already have worked it out, these in reality are just random pieces of brick that could have come from anywhere within parameters of the material type.

    As you say, the vendor has not been seen here for some considerable time. I wonder why?

    In the first instance I agree with all that has been posted here by others regarding the removal of material from historical sites. Plus;

    I was serving in Berlin when Spandau Prison was demolished and most of the rubble that might be identifiable was buried in pits inside the then RAF Station at Gatow. One night a member of the West Belin Police was caught trying to remove a pile of bricks in his patrol car (ostensibly to build a BBQ) and was duly dismissed from his job.

    These were just 19th century bricks. Very high quality with no identifiying features but from a known source. My point is why would anyone want them other than for the obvious reasons that saw them buried in the first place?

    They are of no real historical value as a carved stone tablet or statue might be but souvenir hunters seem to like such things.

    When the Berlin Wall was demolished there were suddenly thousands of little bags of concrete fragments for sale at DM10 a piece! Those of us familiar with the wall could tell that these were mostly the wrong type of concrete but even if genuine were meaningless pieces of junk.

    To my mind, for any such relics to have any context they would firstly need to be ditinguishable but also have bomb-proof provenance.

    It might have seemed a good idea at the time but sadly I think you wasted your money here.

    As we are fond of saying ad nauseum here "buy the item not the story"

    Sorry

    Regards

    Mark
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  7. #7

    Default

    These are some VERY valid points.

    I'm not sure what I expected when buying this piece. To be quite honest I regretted the purchase the very second I pressed the checkout button. I would be really curious to see if this copperpot guy will ever return to the forum sometime. If so I would love to speak to him. He never responded to the eBay message I sent his way. In the end I highly doubt he will ever return though.

    I greatly appreciate all of your thoughts and opinions! I'll be taking this brick out of my display cabinet 'Not exactly sure why I put it there to begin with' and will just keep it in a junk drawer. That's really the only place I can think of where it belongs.

    From now on I'll just stick to the bricks that I've been finding on the beach. They're much better pieces anyways!

    Haus Wachenfeld Bricks?

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