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Early SS Black visor

Article about: Hello, once again I need assistance authenticating a black SS visor. This is purported to be an earlier visor of the 1935 era based on the tag and other features. The material looks like a m

  1. #1
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    Default Early SS Black visor

    Hello, once again I need assistance authenticating a black SS visor. This is purported to be an earlier visor of the 1935 era based on the tag and other features. The material looks like a melton wool appropriate for that era cap. The insignia is inconsequential to me as I can easily replace it if they turn out to be fake upon closer inspection. the gold runes look very bright but perhaps its because the sweat shield preserved the area prior to being removed. All views and opinions are truly appreciated. Thank, Al

    Early SS Black visorEarly SS Black visorEarly SS Black visorEarly SS Black visorEarly SS Black visorEarly SS Black visorEarly SS Black visorEarly SS Black visorEarly SS Black visorEarly SS Black visor
    Regards, Al

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  3. #2
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    Hello Al,
    several observations (this would, again, have been one for F.-B.):

    First I don't think this is melton. Then the piping wants to be moth eaten but normally moth damage looks different (not as regaular as here, particulary at the back of the cap, almost looks like abrased by sandpaper). The RZM-tag has a line of empty stiches at its top and it doesn't seem to be a tag for a cap, see here (post # 8): ex Mollo RZM tag fakes then there is a second line of stiching to be seen where the sweat shield one was - sloppiness or signs for a Frankenstein? If you had this cap in had you'd perhaps be able to identify it more easily for what it is. I am no specialist but I don't have too good a feeling with this cap. Wait for the specialists' opinion, hopefully they will contradict me.

  4. #3
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    Thumbs up

    Hello Wolfgang, once again thank you for the astute observations. Upon closer inspection of the photo's perhaps you are right about the wool. It looks different that the melton wool in this cap below from the archives of F-B

    Early SS Black visor

    The piping is in bad shape and I did not perceive it as being contrived but you have a better eye for these details than I do. As for the tags I'm always at a loss to identify the good from the bad. I never know what to look for despite reading those excellent threads by F-B and others. Many collectors seem to know what to look for but keep the details close to the vest to prevent further enhanced forgeries. I trust your gut feeling on this one lets see if anyone has anything else to add.


    BTW, even the skull looks like it might be one of those fake M1/25's that look fine until you see the fantasy maker on the back. You don't really know until you pry one off like the example below

    Early SS Black visor

    Early SS Black visor
    Regards, Al

  5. #4
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    Just found this thread about the (white) RZM tags, so these did exist in this form for caps (but without the line of stichings at the top):

    SS Schirmmütze RZM Tag

    Another distinctive feature is the colour of the print - here it is brown - might be it should be black, but neither tags nor insignia are my special field, so hopefully one of the specialists can advise you better than I can.

    The runes, by the way, look white instead of gilt on my screen.
    Last edited by ErWeSa; 06-18-2022 at 10:36 PM.

  6. #5
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    Thanks for the link on the tags, I see numerous examples of that very tag in F-B's examples. I surmise the tag is good but may have been added as a "Frankenstein" parts cap. Who knows for sure. Only a handful of really knowledgeable collectors can tell just by looking at it.
    The Runes do appear white not gilt but I assumed it was due to the flash photography inside of a light box which tends to wash out all colors.
    As is almost always the case when I find something affordable there a too many red flags to convince me to move forward. My quest for an earlier cap that I can afford continues.
    Thanks for all your help
    Regards, Al

  7. #6

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    The skull is definitely the M1/25 fake.

  8. #7
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    Thanks Sid, It's good to know I can spot one without looking at the back
    Regards, Al

  9. #8

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    I am a little bit late to the party. I see what you mean. But I am quite sure this one has a good chance.
    And There are a few visors out there with the brown tag. That’s not a bad sign.

    But I think only hand inspection can say it.

    Br

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