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Original panzer NCO cap?

Article about: Hello, good morning everyone, I saw this panzer NCO cap, from my experience I think it is original, it has nothing to raise my alarms, although it is not in the best condition, I still like

  1. #1

    Default Original panzer NCO cap?

    Hello, good morning everyone, I saw this panzer NCO cap, from my experience I think it is original, it has nothing to raise my alarms, although it is not in the best condition, I still like it. What would be its market price? I'll be waiting for your answers
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Original panzer NCO cap?   Original panzer NCO cap?  

    Original panzer NCO cap?   Original panzer NCO cap?  

    Original panzer NCO cap?   Original panzer NCO cap?  

    Original panzer NCO cap?   Original panzer NCO cap?  

    Original panzer NCO cap?  

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  3. #2
    TWS
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    Original cap with a couple unusual details. The visible stitching along the one portion of the crown is unusual. Also, the way the piping is joined in the back. It was done that way, but not often. If I was contemplating buying this cap, I'd have to inspect it in person. Possibly a re-piped example and that change could have occurred period.
    Todd
    Former U.S. Army Tanker.
    "Best job I ever had."

  4. #3
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    EDIT: TWS was quicker than me. Second his opinion.

    This seems to be one of the caps the piping of which has been changed ("umgebiest") - question is when was this done? The piping is one of the ready-made ones which can only be joined by overlapping. This did exist, particularly later in the war. What I don't like with this cap is the bottom of the centerband - very unusual fabric which is unsuitable and which seems to consist of 2 parts. Of course the fabric of the bottom of the centerband was made of different material than the top of the cap - at least very often - but for this bottom usually some felt-like material was used and not what seems to be gaberdine to me. Furthermore there is a seam to be seen above the right side panel (when looking at the cap). This seam secured lining and cheesecloth inlay to the top panel and should not be visible. Sloppyness did happen of course but here I wonder...

    Looking forward to hearing the Senior Members' opinions.

    Such a cap has already been discussed here:

    New arrival: Panzergrenadier Visor Cap

  5. #4
    TWS
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    Long thread about a cap with some similarities that I briefly possessed. Cliff notes: I ended up returning it to the seller. Not because I was convinced the cap was "bad" but because there would always be questions about it.

    New arrival: Panzergrenadier Visor Cap
    Todd
    Former U.S. Army Tanker.
    "Best job I ever had."

  6. #5
    TWS
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    ErWeSa, did you edit your post? I didn't see the link to my similar cap at first, therefore I posted the link as well.

    No worries. Better to have it mentioned twice rather than not at all. Just curious if I was momentarily blind and missed that part of your post.
    Todd
    Former U.S. Army Tanker.
    "Best job I ever had."

  7. #6
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    Sorry, yes I did. All is O.K. with your eyes! Don't worry.

    Sometimes an afterthought hits me and I knew I had already seen such a cap. I saw only when I read the old thread that it was yours. The PzG cap was altered in a very similar way. One of the points mentioned then was that the PzG colour was introduced later in the war so caps might have been re-piped for that reason. For Pz this wouldn't apply. I can't help it - I have a bad feeling. This bottom fabric doesn't fit for me. Furthermore re-piping caps is one of the most difficult tasks to do, I wonder whether this could have been done by a tailor in the field (did they have the special sewing machines/the cap makers there?).

    Another point that just hit my eye: the centerband is too narrow for the insignia - as was the case with your cap.

  8. #7

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    Thank you for your answers, it is true, the TWS cap was very similar to the one I wanted to buy. Basically you are telling me that it might be original and was re-piped during the war? it is a pity, the price is quite good

  9. #8
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    Quote by SilluAgain View Post
    Thank you for your answers, it is true, the TWS cap was very similar to the one I wanted to buy. Basically you are telling me that it might be original and was re-piped during the war? it is a pity, the price is quite good
    If you are lucky it was repiped during the war - one cannot know. I think that if it had been done during the war it would have been done more professionally. There are no pictures with the sweatband upturned (perhaps too brittle for it) so one cannot see whether there are empty/double stitchholes which would further add to my suspicions. What turns me off most is, as said, the fabric of the bottom of the centerband. But who am I - the fact that it seems unlikely doesn't mean it is impossible. From pictures alone it is almost impossible to tell.
    After all, if you are happy with it, everything is O.K. At least some parts seem to be original.
    Last edited by ErWeSa; 12-07-2022 at 05:01 PM.

  10. #9
    TWS
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    Quote by SilluAgain View Post
    Thank you for your answers, it is true, the TWS cap was very similar to the one I wanted to buy. Basically you are telling me that it might be original and was re-piped during the war? it is a pity, the price is quite good
    When I briefly owned the cap in the thread link I posted here, I was reasonably comfortable that it was a period refurbished cap. I discussed the cap with the seller, who has been in this hobby for 50+ years and whom I have bought other items from 25+ years ago that have stood the test of time. He said "whoever doesn't know about them re-piping caps like this... hasn't handled a lot of caps". He's a down to earth, experienced guy with a stellar reputation in the hobby.

    While I could not argue with his statement, I knew that many collectors would... or would at least question the cap. Rather than keep a cap that would always be questioned and would be hard to sell if I ever wished to, I elected to return it. He happily accepted it back.
    Todd
    Former U.S. Army Tanker.
    "Best job I ever had."

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