Possible Waffen-SS NCO Visor Cap

[CReeves]

Hello, this is my first time posting here, though I've browsed quite a few threads in my quest to authenticate this piece. I purchased this cap on a whim at a no-reserve auction for $400 when I saw that few people were showing interest. This was before I realized the rarity of Third Reich memorabilia, and consequently how often faked they are. Since then, I've purchased Gary Wilkins' book "The Collector's Guide to Cloth Third Reich Military Headgear" to avoid making stupid mistakes again. However, after meticulously examining it for hours, I believe there is a possibility it is actually original, and was looking for other opinions. I've attached as many images as I can, I apologize for the poor lighting. I also apologize for the wall of text you're about to read, but I want to give you as much information as I can. I don't believe it is a fake, but I am concerned that it is most likely a very high-quality reproduction that has been artificially aged.

For starters, it is a very small cap, designed for someone with a head circumference of about 18-20 inches. It certainly smells old. Not sweaty, per se, but it smells like my grandpa's old WWII uniforms.

It is made from Trikot wool. The cap band is made from a fine felt with a short nap, and is black. It is sturdy, and I cannot move it on the board beneath it. The wool beneath the cap band is the same color as the top, but is not woven in a Trikot pattern. The piping is white, and shows no signs of dyeing. In some areas it is worn away, and it is apparently constructed from some type of inner cord wrapped in the piping material. The visor is not leather, it is some type of lacquered fiber, which is apparently called "Vulkanfiber." It is a glossy black on the outside, with a molded, raised brim, and on the inside it is a reddish-brown and exhibits a sort of cross-hitch pattern from the fiber. The chinstrap is not a standard Waffen-SS chin strap, rather it is the Heer-style. However, Wilkins states in his book that war shortages often led to Waffen-SS chin straps being substituted with Heer chin straps.

The Eagle and Totenkopf appear to show about the same amount of patina and wear. The Eagle has some seemingly fine detail. I haven't removed either for fear of damaging the cap, but looking behind them, I can see that they are attached with brass-colored pins. They are both sturdy and impossible to bend. The Totenkopf is not as detailed as the Eagle, but I cannot feel any holes on the cap band where it had been replaced.

Inside, the cap bears the logo of August Schellenberg. The sweat diamond is made from celluloid and is yellowed with age (I took a small piece that broke off and put it to a flame, it went up like gun cotton). The lining appears to be silk or some type of artificial silk; it is fine, with what appears to have been an original blue-gray or gold color (can't tell because of the staining). The sweatband is made from leather approximately 1mm thick. It does not have a cork insert, but there is another small leather strip inside on the front of the cap. I couldn't get a picture of it, but beneath the lining there is a leather or cloth rigid strip that is holding the cap's shape up. The sweatband is attached to the cap with some sort of V-stitch pattern, but it appears much more sturdy and intricate than a simple V-stitch. It has a galvanized steel insert that I presume is to help the cap keep its shape.

That is about all of the information I feel is relevant, if anymore pictures are needed please feel free to ask and I'll try to get them posted as quickly as I can. I was not aware of how valuable and therefore how extensively faked these caps are. I followed all of the guidelines laid out in Wilkins' book and I think I can confidently say that this is not a fake made from a post-war cap or modified Heer cap. But, I know there are several companies who supply very high-quality museum reproductions, and I fear that is what this is.

Thank you again for bearing with all of this text, I look forward to finding out if I have a genuine piece of history here or just an imitation. Even if it isn't authentic, I learned a lot from this experience and perhaps found a passion for something I wasn't aware I was all that interested in before!

[stonemint]

CR, welcome to the forum, and the minefield of collecting visor hats.
Unfortunately, the hat you purchased is what we call a Frankenstein--it is made of parts from other hats and reassembled into something more valuable (in this case, SS).
One of the "tells" on this one is the sweatband, which is not a Schellenberg--it has been transplanted from another cap.

I do not specialize in SS insignia, so I will defer to others on those.
You really did not do too bad--you could probably get at least $300 if you go to resell (there are people that collect these as fillers).

As I always say, post before you buy--everyone here is willing to help!

[HPL2008]

Even though the cap turned out to be a disappointment, allow me to commend your attitude and approach.

You made a real effort to analyze the cap's components and compose a thorough write-up of your observations, complete with multiple, good-quality photographs.

This is quite refreshing compared to many first posters who can only be bothered to write something along the lines of "Yo, I bought this Nazi cap at a yard sale. What is it and how much is it worth?" (illustrated with one or two lousy cell phone photographs).

[CReeves]

Thank you for the information. I expected it was likely a fake after seeing just how valuable these things really are. I'm not sure yet what I'll do with it. A part of me feels like I should destroy it to help take one more fake off of the market where it can do damage, but I might just hang onto it and keep it as a reminder to always do research *before* putting down the cash, haha.

Thanks again for the information! I think in the future I'm going to try going to a reputable dealer and purchasing caps less valuable and less faked than Waffen-SS stuff. My real interest is in the Kriegsmarine, so I'll be sure to do a lot of research on their headgear in the near future.

[Gimmie]

Thank you for the information. I expected it was likely a fake after seeing just how valuable these things really are. I'm not sure yet what I'll do with it. A part of me feels like I should destroy it to help take one more fake off of the market where it can do damage, but I might just hang onto it and keep it as a reminder to always do research *before* putting down the cash, haha.

Thanks again for the information! I think in the future I'm going to try going to a reputable dealer and purchasing caps less valuable and less faked than Waffen-SS stuff. My real interest is in the Kriegsmarine, so I'll be sure to do a lot of research on their headgear in the near future.

Please note what Stonemint had said.
It is made up of some REAL parts. Wether the insignia is fake I can't say but the skull bears similarities to the mustache fake.
There is a difference between a reproduction and a fake!!!

Welcome to the forum and as FB had said, thank you for taking the time of sharing your story with us. I hope you enjoy your stay

Regards,
Bas

[MAP]

Thank you for the information. I expected it was likely a fake after seeing just how valuable these things really are. I'm not sure yet what I'll do with it. A part of me feels like I should destroy it to help take one more fake off of the market where it can do damage, but I might just hang onto it and keep it as a reminder to always do research *before* putting down the cash, haha.

Thanks again for the information! I think in the future I'm going to try going to a reputable dealer and purchasing caps less valuable and less faked than Waffen-SS stuff. My real interest is in the Kriegsmarine, so I'll be sure to do a lot of research on their headgear in the near future.

I like keeping my fakes (ahem...reproductions) as 1) a reminder 2) fillers for display.

We all have our hidden draw of disappointments. It's just part of the process.

Beware, even "reputable dealers" have fakes, usually unknowingly. And there really is a very limited universe of "reputable dealers". Don't get fooled by fancy websites. As Stonemint said, ALWAYS post before you buy. Nothing is that rare, so don't worry if you miss out on that "one of a kind" item. Trust me. there are many more out there.

[coogan]

I am learning so don't take my word for it but the areas I circled seem like they could be casting marks ?

[BOB COLEMAN]

The insignia are also reproductions., I hope you can return it and obtain a refund.