Waffen-SS EM/NCO M43 Field Cap

[TWS]

Hi Al,
as I'm no specialist for M43s and I knew I had already seen this cap I provided the link as everything is said there I think. Seems to be a good one (don't know what the last poster from the other thread means by saying "not one for me").

He means he doesn't like it. And because it was Lenny that wrote the post, it carries a lot of weight with those who know that this is squarely in his area of specialization.

[nsf39k]

Hello,
Perhaps the last poster from the other thread knows something you don't.
In the early 2000s, maybe until 2006 or 2007, there has been a production of almost perfect Einheitsfeldmützen, mostly WSS as they're more expensive than Heer ones on the market. They were made of italian gabardine and the lining was the italian grey chevroned rayon. All of them had a Feldgrau WSS trapezoid. I never met anyone able to say if they were made of original cloth or postwar made cloth. I had the opportunity to handle one of these "M43s" and was astonished about the quality at first glance, however as i own an original Einheitsfeldmütze in italian gabardine found on the head of a german peasant in the 80s while he was working on his tractor, i also had the opportunity to compare both headgears side by side. I kept mine and threw the other one away...
The only thing i would say is : If i was interested to buy one of these caps, i would feel way more comfortable if the Einheitsfeldmütze had the stitchings around the crown that indicates the presence of an internal sweatband/stiffener, like the one i own. Personally if i can't find the 16 specific features that i'm looking for when it comes to regulation Einheitsfeldmützen, i send it back/put it back on the table at the fair.
Thanks

Thanks so much for this info. I didn't know any of this since it's not really information you can find off of a book or Google Search. I'll ask the vendor about his return policy, and see if I can inspect it in person for any sign of an internal sweatband, and return it if there isn't.

I'm guessing there's a 50-50 chance it's real, but SS items aren't cheap and I like to be 100% confident about my collection

[JPhilip]

Thanks so much for this info. I didn't know any of this since it's not really nformation you can find off of a book or Google Search. I'll ask the vendor about his return policy, and see if I can inspect it in person for any sign of an internal sweatband, and return it if there isn't.

I'm guessing there's a 50-50 chance it's real, but SS items aren't cheap and I like to be 100% confident about my collection

Hello,
No, there is no book or google search that show these stories, fortunately i would say. The only way to know is to be in the hobby since a long time and to give/receive infos/photos to/from a lot of collectors who share the same point of view and basically the same knowledge. I met so many collectors who had an interesting and well backed story about the production of fakes, that it's impossible for me not to remember when one of these "controversial" items pop up.

For you to see where the stitching around the crown should be, you can watch the photo below.
Once again, i'm not saying it's a fake, i do have quite a small knowledge when it comes to WSS stuff, but as far as Einheitsfeldmützen are concerned, i feel way better when everything is where it should be.

Another thing is, there are many small features that the photos posted in this thread don't show.
Thanks

[Aldo]

Well, this has been an eye opener. I'm grateful for all the information shared regarding these caps. It does explain why there are so many of these caps on the websites. I'm glad I held off buying one of these over the years.

[Fiore]

Hello,
For you to see where the stitching around the crown should be, you can watch the photo below.

JPhilip,

Regarding the reinforcement stitching to which you refer, would that be the line of stitching seen on my own officer's example I posted in the SS uniforms forum a while back? Here:



This is the thread, where the cap received a warm welcome:

Waffen-SS M43 officer's cap, mint (unisssued?)

[JPhilip]

Hello,
Fiore : Those stitchings are not for reinforcement, they indicate the theorical presence of an internal sweatband or stiffener that you can feel under your finger thru the lining. There can't be one without stitchings, but there can be stitchings without sweatband/stiffener, i've seen it already on a few fakes. The "makers" noticed those stitchings on genuine caps and reproduced them without knowing their purpose.

The answer to your question is yes, the stitchings on the crown of the cap you posted are meant for this internal, let's say piece of something as i'm bored to write the previous words again and again. This said, it's up to you now to use your finger and search for it...if it's there you'll find it within three seconds as it's impossible to miss. The stitchings on your example are quite low on the crown, but nothing to panic about, i've seen it already on many genuine caps (i own one cap with the same feature, while the stitchings are a bit higher on my other examples).
Thanks

[ErWeSa]

He means he doesn't like it. And because it was Lenny that wrote the post, it carries a lot of weight with those who know that this is squarely in his area of specialization.

I don't know Lenny and - shame on me - I deduced from his only 7 posts since 2012 that it would be one of the negliable posts, even more so as Ade, Drbill and Aldo liked the cap. As I said, I'm no specialist for M43s and sometimes "gut gemeint ist das Gegenteil von gut" (a German saying meaning that good intentions are the contrary of "the good"). Chapeau for the specitalists' expertise! Lesson learnt.

[TWS]

I don't know Lenny and - shame on me - I deduced from his only 7 posts since 2012 that it would be one of the negliable posts, even more so as Ade, Drbill and Aldo liked the cap. As I said, I'm no specialist for M43s and sometimes "gut gemeint ist das Gegenteil von gut" (a German saying meaning that good intentions are the contrary of "the good"). Chapeau for the specitalists' expertise! Lesson learnt.

Not to worry. I'm not a specialist on these either. In some other areas, bin ich ein Fisch auf dem Trockenen. Lenny is actually the primary person I consult with when I need a second opinion on a piece of soft German headgear. He is also not active here, rather you'll see him on GHW and WAF a lot more.

[SopfCar]

it looks authentic to me. Is it a real one?

[JPhilip]

Hello,
When i uploaded the photo of the first cap posted in this thread, in order to add the red stitchings, a small feature seen on the cap bothered me a bit, then when Fiore posted his Officer example, almost the same feature could be seen on the photo. So i checked all my Einheitsfeldmützen and what i thought at first is now pretty obvious to me. Those two caps were not constructed in the same way than my examples, or the maker(s) of these caps forgot a step in the process of production !? or......!?

Below you can see both caps posted in this thread, if you look closely where the flap joins the body of the cap, this flap can be pulled down until you see the body of the cap, even with excess of cloth appearing here and there. That's not the way a M43 cap was constructed.

The last photo (sorry for this poor attempt) shows three of my Einheitsfeldmützen, on the left Heer EM/NCO in italian gabardine, in the center Heer EM/NCO in Feldgrau woolen cloth and on the right, Heer Officer in german gabardine (not privately purchased, all regulation but in gabardine). As you can see, it's impossible to pull down the flaps completely and the lower part of the body can't be seen, on no account, unless the cap was repaired or modified at some point. But not straight from factory as are the two WSS caps seen here. On the photo, you can also see the stitchings around the three crowns, all of them have internal stiffener/sweatband.

As i said in one of my previous post in this thread, if they were Heer, no way...
and we didn't even see the hidden features of these caps, an Einheitsfeldmütze must be handled, unbuttoned, one should lift the woolen/gabardine cloth everywhere it allows you to do so, the cap must be dismantled from sight and touch before the purchase.
With experience, you don't need to handle it for long, in my case, concerning the woolen cloth example in the center of the last photo posted, i knew she was genuine at first sight, even before handling her to check the level of specifications, here the higher i ever met.
You can double click to enlarge the photos
Thanks