Post-WWII Scottish Unit Headgear (UK and Commonwealth)

[Watchdog]

Mark, I have only seen a few items of clothing with Edward VIII's name on royal warrants, and they were not on military items. However, you never know what is hiding in someone's attic! One thing I had difficulty with, and hopefully you can help, is finding the precise dates for the glengarry. How long after the death of King George V would "“BY APPT TO THE LATE KING GEORGE V” be used? I assumed it would be until King George VI's coronation, but as a senior officer once told me, "Lieutenant, assuming comes from not knowing".

George VI is highly respected by many here in the States for his courage during the Blitz and his dedication to his family. For those who have studied World War II, his actions (and those of his daughter) are well known. I believe the movie, "The King's Speech" allowed a much greater audience to know about this man who chose to stay in London and share the dangers of the bombing with his people and who also overcame his difficulties with public speaking to inspire his people. As President Zelensky has chosen to do in Kiev.

Hi Reid, good question and it is something about which people tend to "assume" their own answers. As we are fond of saying "Assume makes an Ass out of U and Me"

In a nutshell, a royal warrant becomes void on the death of the grantor. However, the holder is allowed a period of two years to remove the arms from their advertising etc. A case in point is the current company of Kinloch Anderson Ltd who still display the arms of HRH Prince Philip Duke of Edinburgh.

I suppose that in the case of the grantor being immediately succeeded as with the Sovereign and a new warrant being granted there would be continuity for the holder.

Many thanks for your kind remarks regarding the late King George VI and our current Sovereign HM Queen Elizabeth. The sentiment is much appreciated. Anyone with eyes in their head and a brain to think with knows what an asset with which we are favoured.

Regards

Mark

[Reid10]

[Reid10]

Thanks Reid,

The Balmoral as far as I am aware was still being worn by the Black Watch in No1 Dress right up until the formation of The Royal Regiment of Scotland. I have to honest and say however that I am not at all sure about the KOSB but I think they gave up the Balmoral much sooner.

I am still puzzling over the medals in the first picture and I really cannot think of anything other than the UNEF medal that would not be far too early or late to have been awarded to this soldier. This is what made me think of The BW of Canada. On the other hand, having thought about it some Scots regiments in the '50s/'60s did wear white blancoed day sporrans and looking again at the picture I am starting to imagine the outline of a St Andrews saltire flag on the building which of course would mean a location in Scotland. Fort George, Inverness perhaps? Do you have any data on the photo?

Regards

Mark

Mark,

I recently found a picture of the Gordon Highlanders in 1965, which I used for the Highland Brigade Glengarry post. In the picture, the officer in the middle is wearing the formal Gordon dress Sporran, but the soldiers with him are wearing a white day sporran. I will look in my files for the date of the picture. I thought 1960s, but the L1A1 makes the date likely in the 1970s. I was able to find several pictures of Scottish regiments wearing a white day sporran, to include the Black Watch, in the 1950s and 60s.



Black Watch Marching in Dundee, 1954.

[Reid10]

Mark,

I was able to confirm how long the balmoral was worn by the KOSB. The KOSB Drum Major wore the balmoral until amalgamation in 2006.

Unfortunately, I could only find an image in Alamy, but I am still looking. There are several pictures of the KOSB Drum Majors wearing the balmoral with the KOSB, but I thought this picture was interesting because it shows the brief period the regiments wore their own headgear with the new SCOTS cap badge.



Final visit of soldiers from the King's Own Scottish Borderers when they visited their Regimental Headquarters in 2006 the Barracks in Berwick upon Tweed.

[Watchdog]

Haha, I think it was actually the Argylls who were responsible for the "Crucified Moose" soubriquet and I can not imagine Lt Col "Mad Mitch" Mitchell even considering taking his "Jocks" into the Crater wearing anything other than The Thistle when they "opened a can of whup-ass" on the local hoods.

Anyway, just for comparison here is an officers unmarked silver version of said "Moose". It is of two part construction held together by four bolts and nuts (two nuts missing on this one).

It looks a lot better than the ORs staybrite badge but is still fairly nondescript. It was intended to be generic of course but the chances of regimental pride allowing acceptance were slim to say the least!

Regards

Mark

[Watchdog]

Black Watch Marching in Dundee, 1954.

Interesting to see the N09 bayonet on the Lee Enfield No4 rifles with the WWII medals on the right hand man of the front rank (assuming they are moving to the right flank and he is the right marker ).
Sorry, for those who don't know what I am waffling about that is the man on the extreme right of the picture

Regards

Mark

[Watchdog]

Attachment 1494767

That badge attachment is unusual for this glengarry. Usually the badge is attached using lugs and the holes for this are present. At some point, the original badge was replaced with one using clasps. However, the owner added felt to make it more comfortable, so the assumption is it was worn. If this was not done by members of the BW, please let me know and I will replace the badge with one with lugs.

Hi Reid,
I must have missed this initially.

You are correct to consider that badge with lugs to be unusual.

As far as I am aware there has never been a BW cap badge with that type of fastener, or any other regiment for that matter. I suspect that this is one of the many "museum copy" types that have been produced just for collectors. Usually by companies calling themselves "The such and such Mint" etc. There have been British badges with that type of fastener but these are Officers Service Dress (OSD) bronze badges which are a different beast altogether!
Of course that is not to say that this was not worn by a soldier who just preferred it only that it is not an issue item.

As this would be a pipers cap one explanation may be if the badge is of a hard, polishable or chromed finish rather than Staybrite in keeping with the typical pipers pride in their appearance.

Here is another example of what might be taken as non standard; It is the Officer / Warrant Officer pattern badge worn on the Glengarry with the red hackle. This example is relatively modern but is still over 30 years old. I acquired it from a Warrant Officer colleague in Montgomery Barracks, Berlin in 1987. The hackle is a little older and I think I picked that up in the late '70s. The paper packet is what the hackle was issued in and gives a clue to its nation of original supply ie Pakistan from whence British hackles have been sourced for decades and I believe they still are.

Regards

Mark

[Reid10]

Hi Reid,
I must have missed this initially.

You are correct to consider that badge with lugs to be unusual.

As far as I am aware there has never been a BW cap badge with that type of fastener, or any other regiment for that matter. I suspect that this is one of the many "museum copy" types that have been produced just for collectors. Usually by companies calling themselves "The such and such Mint" etc. There have been British badges with that type of fastener but these are Officers Service Dress (OSD) bronze badges which are a different beast altogether!
Of course that is not to say that this was not worn by a soldier who just preferred it only that it is not an issue item.

As this would be a pipers cap one explanation may be if the badge is of a hard, polishable or chromed finish rather than Staybrite in keeping with the typical pipers pride in their appearance.

Here is another example of what might be taken as non standard; It is the Officer / Warrant Officer pattern badge worn on the Glengarry with the red hackle. This example is relatively modern but is still over 30 years old. I acquired it from a Warrant Officer colleague in Montgomery Barracks, Berlin in 1987. The hackle is a little older and I think I picked that up in the late '70s. The paper packet is what the hackle was issued in and gives a clue to its nation of original supply ie Pakistan from whence British hackles have been sourced for decades and I believe they still are.

Regards

Mark

Mark,

I bought the BW glengarry earlier in my collecting days when I did not have as much experience and knowledge of Scottish headgear. I will look at the badge and see if it is polished or chromed versus stay-bright. If it is not correct, then I will remove the badge and look for an authentic BW cap badge to replace it with. Unfortunately it will have the holes made by the blades, so I will keep an eye out for a replacement glengarry.

The Officer/Senior NCO BW cap badge is one of the most attractive of the Scottish badges. Thank you for posting your example. I know there are purists who would say the BW did not wear the red hackle on their glengarry, but I have seen several deviations from the "norm" for headgear. Most often for militia units affiliated with a regular regiment. I used to automatically discount any TOS with a BW cap badge, until I saw photo evidence of it being worn. For your example, hard to argue when it came directly from a member of the unit!

[Reid10]

Here is an officers cap badge of The Highlanders (Seaforths Camerons and Gordons) it is identical in design to that of The Queens Own Highlanders (Seaforths and Camerons) as the new regiment (Queens Own Highlanders ammalgamated with The Gordon Highlanders before becoming 4SCOTS in The Royal Regiment of Scotland) took the cap badge of QOHLDRS and the kilt of GORDONS. The physical differences in the badges are simply because it is of newer manufacture from new dies. This one is on a patch of Government (aka Black Watch) tartan as is now worn by 4SCOTS (The Highlanders), Royal Regiment of Scotland. It is still worn with the blue hackle of the antecedent regiments in both TOS and the Glengarry Cap.

Confused? You will be

Attachment 1514698Attachment 1514699

Regards

Mark

PS The Black Watch did wear the same pattern Glengarry in certain forms of dress eg mess dress and pipers but I'm not certain this has carried over into 3SCOTS

Mark,

This weekend I was able to find a tailored "The Highlanders" TOS with blue hackle behind the cap badge. This would not normally be special, except the cap badge is the one you have posted above. So I was able to add an officer TOS for the The Highlanders to my collection. I was also able to find a 1954-marked TOS for the KOSB. I bought both TOS for a VERY good price. When I can, I will post them on the thread.

[Reid10]

Unfortunately, I do not have time to put the TOS into my normal format. However, I wanted to show the officer/senior ranks Highlanders TOS I recently acquired with the cap badge Mark previously posted.

Based on the size and construction, I assume it dates from the late 1990s to the amalgamation with the other Scottish Regiments into the SCOTS Regiment in 2006. There are no tailor marks, so it was likely created by the regimental tailors. The use of the lighter colored bow usually indicates it was for an officer, but I am not sure this is always the case. I have two other Highlanders TOS from this time period, one issued for Other Ranks with the black cotton interior, and one made by the regimental tailor for a senior rank, possibly a Warrant Officer. Both have the darker and wider bow.

Either way, it was a lucky find that I stumbled across when I was looking for something else.