Post-WWII Scottish Unit Headgear (UK and Commonwealth)

[Reid10]

Quick update:

I am having been trying to determine when the Atholl bonnet for the RSDG was introduced.

In the Winter 1978 Journal of the Society for Army Historical Research, there is a six-page article titled, "The Uniforms of the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards (Carabiners and Greys") by R.B. Anderson that describes the uniform created after the amalgamation of the Scots Greys and 3rd Carabiniers. There is a wealth of information describing all levels of Dress. Below are two things related to my collecting focus that I found interesting.

1. Initially the grey beret of the Scots Greys was not going to be worn by the RSDG. However, it was reintroduced in 1976 at the request of the soldiers.

2. The text and pictures show the members of the Pipes and Drums wearing bearskins with white plume or the dark blue forage cap with yellow vandyke band.

There is no mention of the Atholl bonnet, or the glengarry.

I am still trying to determine when both were introduced, but I now know it was after 1978. I may reach out to the RSDG Pipe and Drums and see if they have the answer.

[Watchdog]

Attachment 1494580

Hi Reid, I was just going back over this thread and noticed that I didn't pick up on this one first time around. I can say without doubt that this one in post #34 is definitely an issue type from the '70s/early ''80s with the headband often referred to as "silk" albeit that it is not actually silk but (I think) rayon.

The beret below in post#35 is almost certainly an issue item with the leather band which was re-introduced during the '80s. Without any stamps beyond the dotted double diamond there is room for some conjecture as during the popularity of the "Victor", DuBora" etc types that were "en vogue" before the newer leather banded types were issued, some private purchase berets were marketed with the double diamond and no other markings. However, on this one, under the cardboard badge backing added by the wearer the faux leather pocket for a cap badge with a slider/shank can be seen. The private purchase items never had that feature in my experience.

I hope this helps.

Regards

Mark

[Watchdog]

Unfortunately, I do not have time to put the TOS into my normal format. However, I wanted to show the officer/senior ranks Highlanders TOS I recently acquired with the cap badge Mark previously posted.

Based on the size and construction, I assume it dates from the late 1990s to the amalgamation with the other Scottish Regiments into the SCOTS Regiment in 2006. There are no tailor marks, so it was likely created by the regimental tailors. The use of the lighter colored bow usually indicates it was for an officer, but I am not sure this is always the case. I have two other Highlanders TOS from this time period, one issued for Other Ranks with the black cotton interior, and one made by the regimental tailor for a senior rank, possibly a Warrant Officer. Both have the darker and wider bow.

Either way, it was a lucky find that I stumbled across when I was looking for something else.

Attachment 1576513

Another one that I missed!

Thie thing that makes this one tricky is that when The Highlanders were formed in 1994 it was decided that ORs (enlisted men) would wear the same pattern "3D" badge as officers the difference being that the ORs badge would be in bright white metal whilst that worn by officers and WOs would be in sterling silver. As you observe this one appears to be a "tailored" type so one for an officer or WO the difference then being in the quality of the tailoring and of the cap badge.

For those not as well versed in the subject, just based on the visual format there is no difference between the Queens Own Highlanders (Seaforths and Camerons) and the subsequent regiment The Highlanders (Seaforths Gordons and Camerons). Same badge design, same tartan backing (Cameron of Erracht) and same blue hackle. The difference comes with the physical properties of the badge

Based on what I can discern in the pictures I would bet on yours being an unmarked silver badge on a mainstream tailored bonnet that would be for a Warrant Officer rather than the hallmarked silver badge on a high-end tailored bonnet for a commissioned officer which would certainly have the labels to show how much he had spent!!

Yours is obviously not the QM issued "Jocks special"

Regards

Mark

[Reid10]

Mark,

You are absolutely right! It was only after I posted the bonnet that I bought Hodges book and read that all ranks wore the 3D cap badge after the amalgamation with the Gordon Highlanders. Always learning, which is why I love this hobby.

I also lean toward the TOS being for a WO because of the fabric used in its construction. Usually officers wear the fawn-coloured TOS that is much softer than the OR TOS and often made by a tailor such as Jardines, Meyer & Mortimer, or Goldings. I have a few in my collection. However, I have found there are exceptions. I was recently given a TOS by a Captain in the 32 Signal Regiment that was not the fawn-coloured and made by the regimental tailor. I have seen another TOS for a QARANC Officer from the 205 Field Hospital that was also the darker, khaki colour usually associated with OR TOS. To further add confusion as to who wears which TOS, I have a tailored TOS in my collection that is badged with the OR version of the Seaforth Highlanders cap badge!

Couple of thoughts. 1) Soldiers who are commissioned from the ranks may choose to keep their current TOS rather than spend the money to buy the "officer" TOS. It might also be a way of showing you were once OR. 2) Tailored TOS are expensive. A bespoke officer TOS can start at 65 pounds without the cap badge! It may be that some officers choose to save money by having the regimental tailor make their TOS with the lining of their choice.

I have a friend who is a retired officer of 2 SCOTS. I will reach out and ask him!




Officer TOS - 105 (The Scottish and Ulster Gunners) Regiment


TOS Made by T. Downie Tailors of Edinburgh - Seaforth Highlanders


Officer TOS Made by T. Downie Tailors of Edinburgh - 225 (Highland) Field Ambulance


Officer TOS made by regiment tailor - 32 Signal Regiment

[Reid10]

This TOS was acquired directly from an officer in the Regiment and is of a courser material than what is viewed by many as the "traditional" fawn-coloured, softer brushed wool TOS worn by officers. I have noticed that the Regiment's officers wear several different styles of TOS made from different materials. Also, as stated in the description of the TOS above, members of the 40 Signal Squadron wear a blue caubeen with the Signal Corps cap badge. The blue caubeen, in my experience, is difficult to acquire (I have never seen one for sale).


Officer TOS made from courser and darker material.


Fawn-coloured TOS normally associated with Officers.


Another variation


Blue caubeen worn by 40 Signal Squadron in Service Dress

[Reid10]

I have two 32 Signal Regiment Officer cap badges in my collection, one on a glengarry and the other on a TOS. They are similar in design, but from the pictures below they are different in construction. The badge for the TOS is smaller than the glengarry badge. Second, instead of using the Signal Corps bi-metal cap badge with separate crown attached to the garter and saltire, the TOS badge has a one-piece, all bronze Jimmy. It is also pretty crudely made.

According to Chris Walker's site, the badges are locally made for the Regiment.

www.signalsbadges.co.uk

[Reid10]

I have noticed during my collecting that glengarries made during the period when the Scottish Regiments were badged with either the Lowland or Highland Brigade cap badges (1958-1968) are often found badged with the Regimental cap badge. From speaking to former members (and a little research), this occurred for several reasons.

1) A seller has the glengarry without a badge and just adds the Regimental badge in order to make the sale more attractive, or a collector adds the badge. However, I have another example for a Regiment that wore the Highland Badge dated from the 1960s, but the lug holes do not match.

2) From talking to former members of the Regiments, when the Regimental cap badge was authorized again, they just switched out the badges. This is more obvious when there lug holes for more than one badge.

3) The glengarry may have been issued to a Cadet unit affiliated with the Regiment that retained the cap badge while the Regiment was wearing the Lowland or Highland BDE badge.

4) Some members wore the Regimental cap badge despite being told to switch to the common Brigade cap badge. However, I can only confirm one case of this, when the Argyll and Sutherland Regiment was in Aden.

5) Finally, a former QM told me that his Regiment had several glengarries in their stores and some with earlier dates were issued to soldiers years after they were manufactured.

Unfortunately, without precedence it is difficult to determine which of these possibilities is accurate. Myself, I am just glad to have an example of a glengarry for this Regiment, especially now that it and the Royal Scots no longer exist after being transferred to the new Ranger Regiment in December 2021.

[Watchdog]

I have noticed during my collecting that glengarries made during the period when the Scottish Regiments were badged with either the Lowland or Highland Brigade cap badges (1958-1968) are often found badged with the Regimental cap badge. From speaking to former members (and a little research), this occurred for several reasons.

1) A seller has the glengarry without a badge and just adds the Regimental badge in order to make the sale more attractive, or a collector adds the badge. However, I have another example for a Regiment that wore the Highland Badge dated from the 1960s, but the lug holes do not match.

2) From talking to former members of the Regiments, when the Regimental cap badge was authorized again, they just switched out the badges. This is more obvious when there lug holes for more than one badge.

3) The glengarry may have been issued to a Cadet unit affiliated with the Regiment that retained the cap badge while the Regiment was wearing the Lowland or Highland BDE badge.

4) Some members wore the Regimental cap badge despite being told to switch to the common Brigade cap badge. However, I can only confirm one case of this, when the Argyll and Sutherland Regiment was in Aden.

5) Finally, a former QM told me that his Regiment had several glengarries in their stores and some with earlier dates were issued to soldiers years after they were manufactured.

Unfortunately, without precedence it is difficult to determine which of these possibilities is accurate. Myself, I am just glad to have an example of a glengarry for this Regiment, especially now that it and the Royal Scots no longer exist after being transferred to the new Ranger Regiment in December 2021.

I have to agree and in my opinion all of the above factors are very valid.

Unlike some armies the British Army issues the headdress and badge as separate items and it is up to the soldier himself to fit the badge. Simple enough with a forage/visor cap but with most others it involves the careful application of a sharp object to make the requisite holes.

One collector might prefer the item that has complete provenance indicating that one known (or even unknown) soldier had it from initial issue and that it only ever carried one badge.

This in reality is not that important because, and I suppose it may be the case in other armies, the headdress of a British soldier tends to be very personal to him and he will not replace it until he has no option. This might mean that a different cap badge design might be fitted, the same cap badge pattern but with different fitting such as lugs versus slider might be fitted or even exactly the same pattern badge but by a different maker with fittings placed slightly differently all of which can explain "extra" holes and none of which makes a real difference as long as the badge and the headdress are both authentic.
During my service I might have had several cap badge replacements through wear/damage/even loss in each beret or cap of which there were more than one of each type. It is up to the collector to decide whether the holes etc are indicative of the above factors or if they indicate a clear "put together" which is something dependant of the collectors experience to a large extent.

Just food for thought really.

Regards

Mark

[Jb4046]

I am planning to replace my issued TOS cap badge as the stay Brite one is awful

( I am in the Aberdeen OTC)

[Reid10]

I just saw a white metal Aberdeen OTC cap badge sell for £83.99 on Ebay. I know they are rare, but that seems a bit high. Outside of my price range, unless there is a TOS or glengarry attached and it can be dated to at least 60 years ago!