Ww2 rn hms warspite pork pie for review
Dear Gents
I would like any light about this WWII Royal Navy dark blue pork pie sailor hat long time in my collection that came to me with this HMS WARSPITE cap tally that looks so vintage I would say that have been with hat always but the prob is that WW2 and pre WW2 RN ribbons had a dot at the end of the legend that should be H.M.S. WARSPITE. and not on this ribbon but it looks faded and vintage as the hat itself...any explanation???
Thanks in advance
A type of headgear I know nothing about
Regards,
Jerry
Whateverits just an opinion.
I can't say as I ever noticed that before, but a quick search on the internet shows plenty of examples of WW2 cap tallies without the dot after the name of the ship.
Cheers,
Steve
The tally bow is very poorly executed. I would say the tally was added by a dealer or collector, rather than being original to the cap.
As mentioned above, the dot is considered the norm, though there were plenty of exceptions.
Yes the bow is not very well done because I disbanded to show and see the tally back better when was questioned because the lack of the dot but cap and tally came to me together... Finally is resolved the mistery of dot or not dot and I suppose that both are genuine WW2 period
Thanks in advance
Fernando
Not so fast. Firstly during WW2 what was worn was simply a "HMS" tally with no ship name for security reasons. The general rule regarding Tallies is 1930-39; expect a wire gold full stop after ship name, 1939-45 HMS used. 1946-56 have a slightly larger full stop. After 1956 no Full stops used at all.
The other issue is material made from. Pre ww2 Tallies are made from silk. During the war cotton was used, and Rayon came into use in the 1950's. Try burning a thread.
But I would think this is a post WW2 made Tally. Nice cap though.
Well tally is very faded as you could see and is not completelly black and material appears very rough And what I should expect burning a thread from the tally???
What would be the sense to make postwar cap tally with this name HMS WARSPITE because a thing is sure is not for the later ship/submarine HMS WARSPITE because I own more R.N, cap tallies more modern and not seem the same...?
Im not confirming that tally on my hat is for sure pre WW2 but I would not say post war for sure because this tally is not at the most RN tallies I own for sure
Rayon burns differently to Silk. Try googling that, it's one way to verify material, if you have a loose thread to sacrifice. But I don't think that is a silk tally, which is very fine weave. I have my grandfather's pre-WW2 RN Tally to compare and the material is much finer than I see in those photo. The mid 1960's submarine HMS Warspite would be a possible origin for this one. A photo of the back of the Tally where the name is would be interesting.
Hi Andersonby Anderson
I followed your instructions and I burned a thread from the tally and thread left only dust... Dissappeared completely and I took pics from ribbon alone at sunny light and really this tally looks very old even is almost transparent and I think it could not be from HMS WARSPITE
from 60,s
Ribbon very old almost transparent(may be always together cap and tally???) and burning thread test left black dust on my fingers
I don't pretend convince myself and convince nobody but what we have here???
Thanks for your kindly help once more.
Fernando
Good photos. Here's one I have, from my grandfather who served in the Royal Navy before WW2. He served on the sister ship to the Mantis and got this from a ship mate. So it's definately pre-ww2, the Mantis was scrapped around 1940. My photos not as sharp as yours but a useful comparison for a pre-war tally with provenance. Much darker, both sides. I would say finer weave.
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