Allgemeine ss nco cap

[Vocht]

I agree with Stevade. Many times on this Forum I read that pieces are written of as fake and bad without any argumentation. This helps nobody to learn anything!

[TWS]

I actually do not care for this RZM tag and, from what I see above, I am not keen on the cap, either.

+1 with Dr.CHM
I do not collect SS, but I do collect other period caps and the shape of this cap is a bit... off. Check out that strange rear overhang. Also from what I understand about RZM tags, I don't like the one here.

[TWS]

As DrCMH points out, the RZM tag is a fake. Please understand that most collectors are reluctant to give specifics in such public spaces as all it does is provide detailed instructions to fakers on how to remedy their flaws.

I tend to disagree with that notion and actually find it silly. The fakers often have an original in hand that they are basing their fakes on. If they could make it better, they would have. Not to mention all the reference books that Stevade mentioned.

Usually they already know the flaws in their copies. Even if a flaw is pointed out it's not like the faker can wave a magic wand and "fix" that flaw immediately or easily on the next copy. The reason the flaw exists in the first place is because they lack one or more things to make their fake better: skill, access to authentic materials, or the right type of equipment to reproduce the item exactly like in the period. Pointing out the flaw is not going to magically give them what they lack to make the copy more like the original.

[d'alquen]

"The Forums are for open discussions!!"
If that was all they were for why is there a private message and email function?

[Ullergaard]

I would still like to learn from this cap..
Agree with Todd that the rear overhang looks weird.. But is the whole cap a fake??
Just wondered why there would be a fake tag in a real cap, if that's the case..

[DrCMH]

d’alquen ... Sorry I must of misunderstood why these Forums exist ... I thought it was to discuss specific items that the collector had or was interested in buying and needed reassurance before parting with their well earned cash.
There are absolutely loads of good Reference Books that have been written on all types of Militaria ... SS Caps is one of them.
If comments like I don’t like it, or Not good is the best advice, then I really should consider buying a book.
I’m sure the Fakers have a full set of these books and References and really don’t need to read through these Forums to get a better understanding what it should look like.
The Forums are for open discussions!!

First off, please forgive the late reply. I saw your post and felt that, by no means with any ill intentions of the first few respondents, that you were inadvertently being steered in the wrong direction with the example you posted. I must say that I am rather disappointed as to how this thread has devolved. You had originally posted the above example seeking “expert advice” (of note, I do not claim to be an expert, and anyhow, how does one really verify collecting competence outside of assessing the individuals collection and how well they have done in keeping fakes out of it...) and I shot off a quick reply before going on duty this afternoon. Since you were satisfied with “Text Book” and “Good One” and did not seek further justification for their assessments, I assumed that you were seeking a quick verification as there are many who wish to add an item to complete a display and don’t really want to delve into the minutiae of SS Caps, or belt buckles, or any number of items that we collect. I would caution you as well as any others collecting this material that confirmation bias, while an extreme hindrance to progress in society, is absolutely disastrous in collecting SS regalia and it will cost you dearly.
In the past, I have put together replies that took quite some time to assemble, complete with questions and examples to reinforce the lesson, and the original poster vanishes in the wind without any subsequent involvement. I no longer post often here for this very reason as it isn’t a discussion. What would have been prudent on your part is to respond with some thoughts of your own as to the originality of the item. If you would have viewed some of my other forum posts, you would have observed that I have a little experience with these items and if I am alerting you to some red flags, then perhaps something is amiss. You could have either replied with some thoughtful follow-up questions and we could enter into a discussion, or, you could have simply moved on to another example that suited your collecting taste if you desired. Member d’alquen (an actual expert!) replied, as well, offering his opinion and attempting to give some insight as to why many are reluctant to provide details in an open forum. The fake RZM label on your cap is an evolution of the previous version and, while still easily recognizable as a forgery, has been improved upon - and recently so! Instead of responding with follow-up questions or thanking the two individuals with some experience in this regalia, you replied in the manner of an entitled child, scolding those who actually helped save your “well-earned cash”. Good grief, man! Yes, of course you should consider, and I dare say, actually purchase, some reference books. To go beyond that, look into some reprints of primary source material, or, if you’ve got the financial resources, purchase the originals. How on earth are we to have a discussion if you haven’t taken the time to learn some basics? I am disappointed, to say the least, in your response. Instead of putting together some photos for comparison and, hopefully, giving some insight into the example you posted, I am using the time to write this and it pains me. Please see the thread “SS RZM Tags” for further details and compare what you find there to the example you posted. Or don’t, and move forward with whatever suits you.

[Stevade]

Many thanks for the more detailed explanation.... As I do not own the Cap and it’s currently for Sale on the Regimentals Web-Site and listed as 100% genuine with a 14 Day Money back guarantee ( as we all know is not worth the paper it’s written on ) I thought I would seek the advice on the Forum of experienced collectors of these type of items ... the word expert probably was used in the wrong context.
All I asked was for ... Does it look ok? The comments Good One, or IMHO it ticks the right boxes, I would of assumed an analysis of the Cap Pictures had been done on all the items pictured.
Not good, why?.... RZM Labels not good, why? ... that’s all I was asking be more specific... How did you start collecting, what makes your collection 100% Original, who analysed your items.
As for Fakers reading these scripts is fantasy.... why bother having these Forums at all if it’s not to share our interest and knowledge.
I’ve used the Private Message Function on numerous occasions ... it is not purely used for sharing information that all of us using these Forums are interested in but are in a need to know Forum.

[Stevade]

d’alquen ... maybe list of few of your items.... maybe I can learn from you Pictures .. if you are uncomfortable with that ... use the Private Message Option!!

[Chrish124]

I am also not a huge fan of withholding information with the rationale that the fakers might use it to make better fakes. This may come as a shock to some, but fakers can actually buy original items themselves. Then they know exactly what the original looks like, let alone own reference books. Unfortunately I am no hat expert, so cannot help there.

[Stevade]

Do the Fakers rely on the Dealers Expertise is it 100% original before they purchase ... or do they wait a while to see what the Forum says!! .. It’s a viscous circle.