EM/NCO Infantry Tellerform Visor

[Alex5k]

Hello again everyone,

After looking around a bit I ended up settling on this cap. I decided to go for a more common and cheaper visor for my first, so i can get feel for them. from my understanding, It is a prewar tellerform contract cap. Everything looks good to my untrained eye. The only thing that i find a bit odd is that the eagles prongs are slightly exposed. Hopefully this does not indicate postwar application.

It was issued to 3./I.R. 70. Would that be 3rd infantry division, 70th regiment?

The dealer is currently out of town so it won't be shipped for a couple of days. Ill try and post some photos when i receive it.

Any opinions appreciated, Thanks.

Alex

[TWS]

The unit designation means 3rd Company of Infantry Regiment 70.

IR 70 was part of the 36th Infantry Division until late 1940, then it was given up to to the 111th Infantry Division when 36th ID motorized and reduced from 3 line infantry regiments to 2.

[Alex5k]

The unit designation means 3rd Company of Infantry Regiment 70.

IR 70 was part of the 36th Infantry Division until late 1940, then it was given up to to the 111th Infantry Division when 36th ID motorized and reduced from 3 line infantry regiments to 2.

Thanks Todd, I just noticed after rotating the pictures there is a name above the IR designation. Would that be the name of the soldier or the manufacturer of the cap? looks like "Gemmel"

[ErWeSa]

Hi Alex5k,

Mr. Gemmel was the wearer of the cap.

[TWS]

Thanks Todd, I just noticed after rotating the pictures there is a name above the IR designation. Would that be the name of the soldier or the manufacturer of the cap? looks like "Gemmel"

+1 with ErWeSa who was quicker than I.

On a contract cap such as this the manufacturer is usually - but not always - stamped on the reverse of the sweatband. Sometimes you even luck out and there is a unit property stamp there too.

When it arrives, assess the condition of the sweatband. If it does not appear too fragile, very carefully and slowly unfold the sweatband so you can look at the reverse and see if either type of stamp is there.

Here are some examples - actually recent purchases of mine so the photos were handy. One name tag and the unit stamp under the sweatband of the same cap (A-A 29 in Gotha) and another unit stamp on a different cap to the battalion staff of 1st Battalion, Panzer-Regiment 5. In the case of the recon soldier, it is a private purchase cap so the stamp is likely an approval stamp rather than considered a property book stamp.

[Alex5k]

I appreciate the info Todd and ErWeSa, Ill check it out when it arrives.

Is it ok that the eagles prongs are slightly exposed? and are there any giveaways of post-war applied insignia?

Just trying to soak up as much knowledge as I can about visors, since this is my first.

Alex

[MAP]

I see no extra holes so would assume the insignia is not replaced. But once you get it, look under the hood and see if anything is amiss. But I'm sure it is all fine.

[TWS]

I appreciate the info Todd and ErWeSa, Ill check it out when it arrives.

Is it ok that the eagles prongs are slightly exposed? and are there any giveaways of post-war applied insignia?

Just trying to soak up as much knowledge as I can about visors, since this is my first.

Alex

In my experience, that eagle application points to the eagle probably being off the hat and later reattached. Could even be the original eagle to the hat, but probably not. The workers originally making the hats were skilled at applying the eagles - having done it hundreds of times - and an originally applied eagle would be nice and flush on the hat without the prongs exposed. Now, sometimes eagles look that way because a G.I. brought a hat back and let his kids play with it and they jiggled the eagle or even took it off while playing with the hat. Remember that in the immediate post-war era these items were just souvenirs. Hell, in the early 1980's my friends and I used to "play war" with an M40 helmet that one of their grandpa's had brought back. We had no idea it was worth money.

Also: From what I have understood from many years in this hobby is that in the immediate post-war era in Germany (during the allied occupation) many German veterans or families of veterans would remove the cap eagles and hide them or throw them away if they wanted to hang onto their hat as a remembrance but not run afoul of the occupation authorities. Same thing as with breast eagles on tunics. Of course not all German veterans or their family members were that cautious - thank God.

[Alex5k]

I see no extra holes so would assume the insignia is not replaced. But once you get it, look under the hood and see if anything is amiss. But I'm sure it is all fine.

In my experience, that eagle application points to the eagle probably being off the hat and later reattached. Could even be the original eagle to the hat, but probably not. The workers originally making the hats were skilled at applying the eagles - having done it hundreds of times - and an originally applied eagle would be nice and flush on the hat without the prongs exposed. Now, sometimes eagles look that way because a G.I. brought a hat back and let his kids play with it and they jiggled the eagle or even took it off while playing with the hat. Remember that in the immediate post-war era these items were just souvenirs. Hell, in the early 1980's my friends and I used to "play war" with an M40 helmet that one of their grandpa's had brought back. We had no idea it was worth money.

Also: From what I have understood from many years in this hobby is that in the immediate post-war era in Germany (during the allied occupation) many German veterans or families of veterans would remove the cap eagles and hide them or throw them away if they wanted to hang onto their hat as a remembrance but not run afoul of the occupation authorities. Same thing as with breast eagles on tunics. Of course not all German veterans or their family members were that cautious - thank God.

Thank you guys,

I feel like I might have rushed into getting a visor without doing enough research. Does the possibility of the eagle being replaced hurt the value/collect-ability too much? I have not been charged for the hat yet so I could probably cancel the order. But I would hate to cause any inconvenience for the dealer.

[MAP]

I would ask the dealer for some closer/better photos inside and out. I would also ask him what he sees. He has a very good reputation from what I have been told so I am pretty sure he will understand your concerns.

My gut thinks it won't show anything definitive.