Luftwaffe NCO cap, unit ID?

[brennan909]

Hello all. I recently picked up a luftwaffe cap, seems to check out so far but the only thing that has me scratching my head is the unit ID stamp. Anyone have any ideas? From what I've gathered it was some kinda school or training ground at Neubiberg. Maybe post/pre war? (Sorry the picture isn't very crisp, the hat isn't in mint condition and the inner band has a few tears, didn't want to put more stress on it.)

[TWS]

Flieger Ersatz-Abteilung Neubiberg

Aviator Replacement Detachment Neubiberg (town)

A training and replacement unit for Luftwaffe flight troops located at Neubiberg.

[brennan909]

Thanks TWS!!

[TWS]

Thanks TWS!!

You're very welcome.

Now that I think about it, a slightly better translation would be "Airman" like U.S. Air Force parlance rather than "Aviator".

[brennan909]

Im a bit rusty on my Luftwaffe rankings and such, but Im going to assume NCO's most likely weren't pilots at least at the beginning, or maybe back seaters like radio operators or mechanics or crewmen on bombers?

[ErWeSa]

As far as I know - the LW specialists will correct me if I'm wrong - there were more NCO pilots than officer pilots. All the Ju etc. planes were flewn by NCOs. The officers mostly flew the much rarer Jadgflugzeuge.

[TWS]

As far as I know - the LW specialists will correct me if I'm wrong - there were more NCO pilots than officer pilots. All the Ju etc. planes were flewn by NCOs. The officers mostly flew the much rarer Jadgflugzeuge.

Not a specialist, but I agree that there were more NCO pilots than officer. I used to think that the minimum rank for a pilot would be Unteroffizier, but than I came across Obergefreiter pilots!

On the second point, I disagree. There were seemingly a lot of Stuka (Ju 87) officer pilots. As far as the unglamorous Ju 52, there were a number of officer pilots that flew big wigs around in them.
The thing about the Luftwaffe is that in flight units, the commanders were pilots themselves. At least at the first few levels of command. So the commanders were in the "front lines" just like any of the other flight crew. So, whatever airframe was involved, there would still be some officer pilots.

Perhaps a real LW specialist can better inform us about the different airframes and their officer pilot ratios. I'm more of a casual LW collector compared to some of the really dedicated guys I know.

[Bob Lyons]

I found this on the Axis History forum:-

Most Flieger-Ausbildungs-Regimenter were formed from the old Flieger-Ersatz-Abteilungen on 1.4.39 (becoming Stab and I. Abt. of the new unit).
The commander of the new Flieger-Ausbildungs-Regiment, and was at the same time, commander of the I. Ausbildungs-Abteilung:
Luftflotte 1: Rgt 10, 11, 21, 31, 41, 51. 61, 71
Luftflotte 2: Rgt.12, 32, 42, 52, 62, 72, 82
Luftflotte 3: Rgt.13, 23, 33, 43, 53, 63
Luftflotte 4: Rgt.14, 24
The Flieger-Ausbildungs-Regiment was each to have 3 Abteilungen:
I. Abt from the old Flieger-Ersatz-Abteilung (1. - 5. kp.)
II. Abt. new (6. - 10. kp.)
III. Abt. was the Flugzeugführerschule A/B that was attached (Schule)
This plan had not been implemented by 1.9.39, and all Flieger-Ausbildungs-Regimenter still only had the I. Abteilung.
At mobilisation (26.8.39) the following units were formed:
Flieger-Ausbildungs-Regiment 16 from Flieger-Ersatz-Abteilung 16 (no Schule attached)
Flieger-Ausbildungs-Regiment 26 from Flieger-Ersatz-Abteilung 26 (no Schule attached)
Flieger-Ausbildungs-Regiment 22
the II. Abteilung in all Flieger-Ausbildungs-Regimenter
the Flugzeugführerschulen A/B that were attached to the regiments became known as Schule/Flieger-Ausbildungs-Regiment, and functioned as the III. Abt of the regiment.
In 10.41/11.41 the Flieger-Ausbildungs-Regimenter were renamed Flieger-Regimenter, and most moved outside Germany for garrison duties. The Schule (Flugzeugführerschulen A/B) became independent and remained in Germany.
Most Flieger-Regimenter were used to form the Luftwaffen-Feld-Divisionen in 1942.


Kommandeure:
• Obstlt Albert Vierling, 1.8.35 - 28.2.37
• Oberst Kurt Boettge, 1.3.37 - 1.11.38
Formed 8.35 in Neubiberg as Flieger-Ersatz-Abteilung 5, from 1.10.35 as Flieger-Ersatz-Abteilung 15.
On 1.11.38 redesignated Flieger-Ersatz-Abteilung 13.

Luftwaffe Flying Schools at Neubiberg
________________________________________
Flugzeugführerschule A/B 13

Kommandeure:

Oberst Dipl.Ing. Horst Merz, 1.9.39 - 22.11.39
Maj Guido Neundlinger, 7.12.39 - 1940
ObLt Ericch Bonde, 13.9.40 - ?
ObLt Wolfgang Grube, 28.2.41 - ?
Oberst Carl Stickforth, 1943(?) - 11.7.43
?

Formed 1.11.38 in Neubiberg (Schule/Flieger-Ausbildungs-Regiment 13).
In November 1939 moved to Pilsen (Höh. Fl. Ausb. Kdo. 17),
and in April 1943 returned to Neubiberg. Disbanded June 43.

Used the following aircraft: Ar66, Ar68, Ar96, Bf108, Bü131, Bussard,
Fw44, Fw58, Grunau Baby, He46, Hs123, Ju86, Kl35, Letov S.328 and W.34.

[Bob Lyons]

As for Officer/OR ratios, as Todd says above, there were certainly pilots with no rank at all, I think Germany and Russia were the only
countries to employ pilots from the lowest rank upward. An aircraft could be piloted by a Gefreiter for example, but the Observer would
probably be an officer in command of the aircraft (in the case of aircraft with more than one crew member).

The course to become a qualified pilot was quite lengthy and involved, and then there was officer schools to attend on top of that.

Like Todd, I am also just an enthusiast, and a long way from those who have the very advanced knowledge on this subject, so I hope
my two cents worth assists....

Best wishes

Bob

[TWS]

Some items from my collection related to the discussion. Two young men, graduates of the LW Flieger Schulen.

One pilot who earned his "wings" as an officer candidate and the other who as a mere Gefreiter became qualified as an air gunner.

Note: click on the photos to view them in better resolution.