Waffen-SS Camouflage Cap

[besslein]

hello to All
well thats is a suprice for me,this negative comments on Bob"s camo cap
In my opinion this cap is a "one looker" period original item,without and ???
well guys,realy please stop this "comments" becose Bob REALY know what he do.
warm regards
Arek

[Adrian Stevenson]

Thank you for your kind comments again FB. However, it just goes to show that it might be my native tongue, but your command of the English vocabulary exceeds my own. Skeptical is indeed the word I should have used.

I would also like to point out that a forum member who took part in this thread has now been banned. This act has nothing to do with comments expressed in this thread. I took this step after discovering his true indentity. He has a documented history of dishonestly obtaining goods and money through deception.

Cheers, Ade.

PS> Arek welcome to the forum!

[ostlanddigger]

may we know whoo was that guy-i mean banned??

[240stevek]

Not sure who it was, but I know it wasnt me!

Steve

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Onwards to new sunny uplands of rare, authentic, exciting and challenging regalia, dear fellow fans of old head wear! Danke vielmals for Adrian S. keeping things in marching order here. Vorwaerts!

[Bob Hritz]

This is a field made type of reversable camouflage cap. It was gotten from a European film studio, so it is impossible to know if wartime made or made for the movies, post-war. It shows wear and is made of authentic camo material. It has evidence of a metal totenkopf cap insignia once pinned to the front.

As with all field made uniforms and equipment, it is nearly impossible to proove authenticity and a healthy skepticism is required until period photographic evidence presents itself.

Bob Hritz

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Thanks so much, another interesting piece. Skepticism but at the same time an open mind are needed in this case. Such is Orwell's double think, and so be it. Thank you colleague Hritz for the images. Are there examples of normal woolen field caps with the peak, made by tailors or craftsmen at the tactical level? I wonder at what level were such craftsmen normal? One needs to look at the STAN of a regimental logistics unit, I would imagine.

Among my treasured objects is the handbook for the Bekleidungsunteroffizier, i.e. the NCO who ran the quarter master depot for uniforms and textiles. Such things are a gold mine of knowledge germane to our inquiries.

The other point in this kind of thing are the role of the so called Proben, i.e. the pattern pieces issued by the Bekleidungsaemter in the old army and then also introduced into the SS for the same purpose. Peter Jenkins and others collect such Proben. These came with a card label or a plombiert seal, i.e. a leaden seal. These pieces were then reverse engineered (copied...) by the craftsmen or craftswomen (!!!!) who made this regalia. The volumes that illustrate the collection of the old Bavarian army museum in Ingolstadt and are published by the Austrian Herr Rest describe this system in the old German army in great clarity. The same system was also used in the Bundeswehr and NVA, actually. Report Verlag has a new, excellent book on Bw uniforms, where these Proben are also illustrated in detail. Where then is the Probe that came from the SS Wirtschafts und Verwaltungshauptamt that was the basis for this cap? Gone with the wind... I know that D. Chapman and J. Toncar have an interest in these things, with the center of gravity on the SS depot at Dachau. But were there not other quarter master locales in the W-SS where experiments with camouflage clothing unfolded from the middle 1930s until war's end?

The other sites have images with such Proben, but one does ill to neglect this aspect of militaria in Germany, where standardization was surely a factor, but not in the way that many early 21st century people can easily imagine. Wilkins make some of these points in his book, but I think they are a little abstract in contrast to the colored pictures.

[Bob Hritz]

I have always believed that the low level, of issue, on the camouflage caps made it an object that was desired for wear among many soldiers of the Waffen-SS. Altering issue camo garments is clearly widespread, from gleanings of period images. I believe the materials were also used to produce headwear of various styles and quality, mimicking the issue pieces.

Of course, that leads to the dilemna of those well used surplus zeltbanns that are easly dismantled and made into post-war helmet covers and field caps, to satiate the collector demand. From this, we must always refer to:

HRITZ'S RAZOR OF RELATIVE VALUE

The value of an item is in inverse proportion to the length of the explaination. Ergo: the longer the explaination, the shorter the price!

Bob Hritz

[Friedrich-Berthold]

I have always believed that the low level, of issue, on the camouflage caps made it an object that was desired for wear among many soldiers of the Waffen-SS. Altering issue camo garments is clearly widespread, from gleanings of period images. I believe the materials were also used to produce headwear of various styles and quality, mimicking the issue pieces.

Of course, that leads to the dilemna of those well used surplus zeltbanns that are easly dismantled and made into post-war helmet covers and field caps, to satiate the collector demand. From this, we must always refer to:

HRITZ'S RAZOR OF RELATIVE VALUE

The value of an item is in obverse proportion to the length of the explanation. Ergo: the longer the explaination, the shorter the price!

Bob Hritz

Dear Sir, well said. Thanks for the intervention. The imponderables are amusing. cordially, FB

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Bob, I like your razor

Buying any "field made" item does require a leap of faith in some cases. If all the parts are from original items, such as Zeltbahns, it can be a tricky decision to make. I have seen caps constructed out of Zeltbahns and then used by re-enactor friends. These now show true field wear.

Many collectors are frightened by anything not "textbook". I certainly would not compile a collection alone of such peices, but if the price is right and that "gut feeling" is there, I am willing to take a small chance.

With this cap you show, I honestly don't know. The visor with multiple stitched reinforcments does remind me more of a US HBT cap than anything German in origin.

Hi FB, the "Proben" peices are a very interesting subject. I have seen Heer and KM items on the market in the last few years, but not anything SS.

The British had the same system, except ours were called "Sealed Patterns" and came with a red wax sealed tag. My wife was some sealed pattern items in her collection.

Cheers, Ade.