Question about a pocket knife

[OwdWullie]

Good morning Gentlemen.

I am a pocket knife collector. I don't specifically target German Militaria. However, I came across this knife in a bunch that I bought and was doing some digging on it and found another one by the same manufacturer for sale at German Militaria site.

Their knife is listed as a Deutsche Jugend pocket knife. It does have a "sigrune" shield like the DJ used.
Here are some pictures of my knife








The thing that bothers me about this knife being advertised as a DJ knife is the fact that it was made by UTICA CUTLERY in Utica, New York. I find it odd that with the wave of nationalism that was going on in Germany during the thirties ( this knife is 1930's mfr) and with all those magnificent German cutlery houses in full swing, that someone would contract a New York firm to make knives for them.

I'm also aware that if this knife is in fact a DJ pocket knife, its' value will increase dramatically. I intend to sell it. I do not intend to sell it as something it is not nor ever was just because it has an interesting shield on it.

So after perusing your forum and enjoying the information herein, I decided to see if any of the knowledgeable people here could give me some insight.

Thanks in advance.
Willie in Frozen Texas
( this global warming is getting out of hand I tell ya' )

[John Brandon]

Hi Willie, and welcome to the forum

How freezing is it in Texas? Not as freezing as it is here in the UK

2 degrees warmer than the south pole apparently.

Your "knife" I think is a product of the 4th Reich, certainly not an authorised piece. I think the rune has been added at a later date.
JMO

[HJ-Collector]

hi and welcome everything i have read and heard that these dj pocket knifes are fantasy items and not even a fake of a real period dj item. it also doesnt mention them in period hj/dj regulations. jmo

regards ewan

[3mk]

Like the John says its a fake,The American company mark is to good to be true on a 3rd Reich item.And Willie,Its not as cold as in Canada

No need to explain that your from texas as theres a bottle of tobasco in your picture (Thats some good stuff )

[OwdWullie]

Hi Willie, and welcome to the forum

How freezing is it in Texas? Not as freezing as it is here in the UK

2 degrees warmer than the south pole apparently.

Your "knife" I think is a product of the 4th Reich, certainly not an authorised piece. I think the rune has been added at a later date.
JMO

Surprisingly enough, that "rune" is original to that knife. I suspect that someone somewhere decided to connect dots that never existed in an attempt to make some extra $$. Utica Cutlery did use that design for shields on their knives and would probably roll over in their respective graves if they knew what some individuals were trying to pass them off as.

I didn't really think it was a DJ knife and am primarily gathering ammo against those that have seen the knife that are trying their best to convince me it is a DJ item.

I got it cheap and it does have value as a decent old UTICA CUTLERY with a funky shield.

GREAT site you gents have here. I'll be stopping in often. Thanks for the welcome.

As for frozen? It has been below freezing for over 48 hours here in Fort Worth. Not unheard of, but it doesn't happen very often. Good thing that global warming is kicked in. I'd hate to think how cold it would be without it. LMAO.

Thanks for the welcome.
W

[Andrew]

i wonder if it's a possability it has something to do with the american nazi bund from the 30's made as give away's at a rally ? ( only a thought mind you ). but other nazi items were made here at the time. for the american bund. there were many german americans here. i would not write the knife off as a fantasy item with out alot more research. it could well be an original period item. not made in germany, but for the american market.
i hope for the owner it turns out to be a treasure.
andrew

[John Brandon]

i wonder if it's a possability it has something to do with the american nazi bund from the 30's made as give away's at a rally ? ( only a thought mind you ). but other nazi items were made here at the time. for the american bund. there were many german americans here. i would not write the knife off as a fantasy item with out alot more research. it could well be an original period item. not made in germany, but for the american market.
i hope for the owner it turns out to be a treasure.
andrew

I wouldn't discount that possibility, however, it is unlikely that many people knew what the single rune signified at that time

It would more likely be a swastika

[Andrew]

i tried to search on line for any information on the knife. i found a thread about it already. this knife may also just be a normal pocket knife, with just one of many different types of shields on the grip made by utica. and was not intended as something nazi.
not something that would interest me either way for my collection.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Willi, welcome to the forum!

Thanks for showing an interesting and attractive little knife.

I also doubt any Nazi connection.

The runic alphabet was hijacked by National Socialist designers: this knife could simply be something which tried to echo earlier motifs. Maybe purchasers could op for a range of letters? I don't know, just thinking out loud here??

Cheers, Ade.

[OwdWullie]

The possibility of an American Nazi Party connection has been mentioned. I haven't totally discounted it, but I think it is a long stretch of the imagination.

Sadly UTICA CUTLERY is long since out of business and I doubt anyone has any records from their production.

We had a pretty good discussion going on about it at allaboutpocketknives.com which may be the thread mentioned earlier.

The knife that got me started to wondering about this thing is located at The Collector's Guild

I am currently emailing back and forth with those gentlemen to see if they have any hard facts or are just running on info supplied by by the consignor of that knife.

Thanks again for all the input. Unless someone can show me something "hard and fast", this knife will always be in my mind, just a neat old pocket knife with an interesting shield.

German Militaria and WWII militaria are fascinating subjects. Like every other lucrative field of collecting, you'd better know your stuff or you're going to get burned. I have too much trouble keeping up with counterfeit domestic knives to try and keep up with all the subtleties of this fascinating field.

German cutlers produced some of the finest knives on the planet and some still do to this day.

Stay warm gents.

Salud!
W