Schutzpolizei Wachtmeister Uniform

[Anderson]

Beautiful looking uniform Al. But now the fun really begins filling the gaps, leather belt, holster and you really need a nice Polizei seitengewehr!

[Aldo]

Beautiful looking uniform Al. But now the fun really begins filling the gaps, leather belt, holster and you really need a nice Polizei seitengewehr!

Thank you Anderson, I do look forward to completing the uniform one bit at a time. I do have a buckle but the belt I have is too short to go around the waist of the body form. I'll update photo's as it's pieced together.

Cheers, Al

[MarcoPennisi]

The rank is that of Wachtmeister for the 1941-1945 period. As the US EM/NCO ranking system differed from the traditional European one, it would be advisable not to translate Wachtmeister in a US rank , which is not Master Sergeant anyway. Wachtmeister may equal a sergeant in the WW2 US Army (4th grade), and in the WW2 British Army as well. The double aluminum braid around the base of the shoulder cord is believed to indicate an officer candidate, albeit in Heer /Army fashion which was not in accordance with Police regulations.
One-button “M43” cap never existed, instead it’s a normal mountain cap (Bergmütze) from 1942-1943 when the coloured top piping was done away with. More than likely the hexagonal Bevo/woven “M43” cap insignia has been reapplied as it’s not the insignia for that headgear pattern. The “beaded” steel helmet is decorative but let me say it’s a bit out of place and not the kind of helmet donned by Schupos.
Apart from my personal comments, which may be questionable, and factual observations, may I congratulate you with your grouping which is a feast for the eyes of any German Police enthusiast (as I am) and in outstanding condition.

[Aldo]

The rank is that of Wachtmeister for the 1941-1945 period. As the US EM/NCO ranking system differed from the traditional European one, it would be advisable not to translate Wachtmeister in a US rank , which is not Master Sergeant anyway. Wachtmeister may equal a sergeant in the WW2 US Army (4th grade), and in the WW2 British Army as well. The double aluminum braid around the base of the shoulder cord is believed to indicate an officer candidate, albeit in Heer /Army fashion which was not in accordance with Police regulations.
One-button “M43” cap never existed, instead it’s a normal mountain cap (Bergmütze) from 1942-1943 when the coloured top piping was done away with. More than likely the hexagonal Bevo/woven “M43” cap insignia has been reapplied as it’s not the insignia for that headgear pattern. The “beaded” steel helmet is decorative but let me say it’s a bit out of place and not the kind of helmet donned by Schupos.
Apart from my personal comments, which may be questionable, and factual observations, may I congratulate you with your grouping which is a feast for the eyes of any German Police enthusiast (as I am) and in outstanding condition.

Thank you for the comments and insight. The original auction was listed as "Oberwachtmeister" uniform hence my erroneous translation into master sergeant. I realize the helmet was not "correct" for the uniform, I was simply having some fun displaying my numerous headgear with the one and only uniform I own.

Also I am familiar with the Bergmütze mountain cap which has the one button but I was also under the impression that it should have a shorter bill. In the Gary Wilkens book on page 192, under police caps there is mention made of a single button M 43 not to be confused with the Bergmütze which are covered in detail on page 200 of the same book. I do in fact think my cap could be an M 43 with standard insignia which ended up being used in place of a mountain cap. Here are more detailed photo's, Take a look and tell me what you think.

Regards, Al

[real steel]

One button M43 police hats did exist. A nice example on Virtualgrenadier site..."Sold cloth hats"...page 7 & I have seen a few from some respected dealers & collectors. Granted , not the same insignia....but the one button did
exist & not in the "short bill" but a full M43 style
D.

[real steel]

These appear to be M43 caps, not Bergmutze . Compliments of "Stonemint". Maybe I am wrong, but the first & last pic are single button M43 IMO
D

[real steel]

The rank is that of Wachtmeister for the 1941-1945 period. As the US EM/NCO ranking system differed from the traditional European one, it would be advisable not to translate Wachtmeister in a US rank , which is not Master Sergeant anyway. Wachtmeister may equal a sergeant in the WW2 US Army (4th grade), and in the WW2 British Army as well. The double aluminum braid around the base of the shoulder cord is believed to indicate an officer candidate, albeit in Heer /Army fashion which was not in accordance with Police regulations.
One-button “M43” cap never existed, instead it’s a normal mountain cap (Bergmütze) from 1942-1943 when the coloured top piping was done away with. More than likely the hexagonal Bevo/woven “M43” cap insignia has been reapplied as it’s not the insignia for that headgear pattern. The “beaded” steel helmet is decorative but let me say it’s a bit out of place and not the kind of helmet donned by Schupos.
Apart from my personal comments, which may be questionable, and factual observations, may I congratulate you with your grouping which is a feast for the eyes of any German Police enthusiast (as I am) and in outstanding condition.

The braided aluminum "loops" around the shoulder boards...are you saying "post war fake" ? or how do we explain them on the boards ? They certainly look period & match the boards themselves...maybe you can elaborate further. Saying they are not in accordance with police regulations is not a detailed analysis of them. I would like to learn.

And of course...the blue (probably a convert to fire police or LS) does not match a police tunic....that's obvious. As Al mentioned...just having some fun
Thanks, D.

[real steel]

The rank is that of Wachtmeister for the 1941-1945 period. As the US EM/NCO ranking system differed from the traditional European one, it would be advisable not to translate Wachtmeister in a US rank , which is not Master Sergeant anyway. Wachtmeister may equal a sergeant in the WW2 US Army (4th grade), and in the WW2 British Army as well. The double aluminum braid around the base of the shoulder cord is believed to indicate an officer candidate, albeit in Heer /Army fashion which was not in accordance with Police regulations.
One-button “M43” cap never existed, instead it’s a normal mountain cap (Bergmütze) from 1942-1943 when the coloured top piping was done away with. More than likely the hexagonal Bevo/woven “M43” cap insignia has been reapplied as it’s not the insignia for that headgear pattern. The “beaded” steel helmet is decorative but let me say it’s a bit out of place and not the kind of helmet donned by Schupos.
Apart from my personal comments, which may be questionable, and factual observations, may I congratulate you with your grouping which is a feast for the eyes of any German Police enthusiast (as I am) and in outstanding condition.

This reply....that is what "cheapens" a forum. Again...incorrect assessment of the OP thread can turn a forum toxic. If one is not 99% sure of his opinion, best to say at the end of the reply..."IMO". If not, it comes across as fact. Let's remember, this is not a case of 7 guys sitting around a poker table discussing militaria. This forum is viewed "World wide" by thousands. So in essence....these remarks point to Aldo's tunic & hat being incorrect which to some, can be quite hard to deal with.
So...let's hear from Mr. Marco so we can clear this up.
D.

[Aldo]

Here is a chart that indicates Oberwachtmeister exists as a rank within enlisted and NCO's of the Ordnungspolizei.
Essentially a "Staff Sergeant" easy enough to look up in the most rudimentary google search

Ranks and insignia of the Ordnungspolizei - Wikipedia

[Aldo]

I stand corrected that it is in fact a Staff Sergeant (Oberwachtmeister) and not a Master Sergeant (Meister) but the rank exists. Master sergeant would be like the boards in my display case.