"war damaged" 24 inch rail eagle Opinions please

[drdata]

Railway eagle for discussion - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

<they have many threads on RR eagles over there>

Has some discussion about the studs, and whether they should be tapped or threaded. No JR chime in on this thread, and most quoting his book state should be threaded.

I also note the detail is weak on the chest. This is a high-point, but does not seem top be caused by wear. Odd the chest would be so weak while other aspects have decent detail.

Cheers

[Andrew]

Hi Drdata,
with other things that get cast, the extra studs could be vent or fill holes. the unneeded studs would eventually be removed , just a thought.
andrew

[drdata]

Agree that there could be extra vent (sprue) holes, but normally if they are to be later removed they are ugly. All these are the same size/shape, which makes me think they were not simple vents. Also, most originals have a single post in the center of the swaz. Still somewhat odd even if you remove 2 of the 3 post, IMO.

Thanks

[Andrew]

good point on the location.
i have one direct from a vet . mine needed some repair. the wing studs were broken off taking a small bit of the front with it, other one was cut off. i had to do some repair to its legs too, they started to cut the bottom part off but the vet stoped them. he brought it home.
amazing the things they sent and brought home.
so with a little aluminum welding some studs in place and filling in the other cut and wing holes, it makes a great display piece. i cut out plywood and coverd it in material so i could hang it. its not what you would consider 100% original any more because of the repairs. but its an original eagle and plenty good enough for my interest as a display item.

[drdata]

looks nice, and the helms too! From the angle almost seemed it was missing its right wing, but i think the flash just missed it.

I'm debating trying to remove as much of the black paint as possible. Then again, hard to tell where soot ends and paint starts, and as noted some does not want to come off with acetone. I wish I knew if any of these were actually factory done in black.

Regards

[drdata]

OK, so I did what should never be done. Bumped my own thread, and cleaned an antique. Or at least, what I still think may be one.

I did this for investigative reasons, and as restoration. Hope was something may have been hidden under the board (nothing found, no new marks), but also because I did not like the way the previous owner used wood sloppily glued to the back, and then got stupid with a can of black spray paint.

The epoxy did not stick well, which means the wing detached, but also minimal impact in its removal. The rear of the detached cleaned up great, being almost all paint. The wing that is attached still shows blackening and discoloration, as does the front. I used acetone with a nylon brush, and what is left of the black seems to be soot, or etched in, and is not soluble w/acetone.

I plan to use some metal epoxy putty to reattach wing, and support with Plexiglas bar so as to not cover up anything. No more black paint, obviously.

Including a few more pics in hope it may help stir interest and an ID. A close up of the post that shows some saw marks, but given all posts are the same length I do not believe this indicates field removal. The bottom of the post are cleanly cast, however. Something that fakes generally have issue with.

Also the bent wing (that broke), and the details of the back now that its cleaned. Pics are large to show max detail. You can see faint scrape marks from the expoxy removal.

Cheers

[drdata]

While it was apart I weight it. 2 pounds 9 oz. Also, in correction to what I stated above, I could see where removing the two upper lugs on the swaz would result in a pattern that matches this one (link posted already, black rail eagle). Meaning, not all had the central lug it would seem:

German "Deutsche Reichsbahn" Railroad Eagle in Black

The one at link above clearly never had lugs in the same spot. If you look back at mine, the lugs actually span from the edge to the swaz, with an area of low relief in between. meaning, even if you cut/ground the extra lugs off mine there would remain a trace that is not evident on the one at link above. Also the black one above has its upper lugs offset a bit downward from the wing edge, while mine nearly abut it. I'd like to know the tread size for the matching nut. Looking at the above pics, its seems the lug was larger, and then cut down when/while threading.

Yes, I am obsessed by this damn thing. Will try and get over it.

[Andrew]

to funny drdata, i know exactly how that obsession can be. you will have to search the net for different examples untill your eye balls fall out, like i did on a badge i have. amazing what you can find. i'm more comfortable with my badge after my search, after finding the same examples.
so i hope you have less eye strain than i had.
andrew

[sitges1990]

In my very humble opinion it's either original or one very, very, very good fake. The paint on the board was so half a#*, you would thing a forger would have done a better job. It looked like a nice frame, so if you go to all that work, why the half a#* paint job. The detail doesn't look bad. I really like it Doc, the mystry and intrigue are worth the 200 bucks. There are many more good eyes on this forum that haven't jumped in on this yet. May the Swartz be with you!

Jay

[drdata]

In my very humble opinion it's either original or one very, very, very good fake. The paint on the board was so half a#*, you would thing a forger would have done a better job. It looked like a nice frame, so if you go to all that work, why the half a#* paint job. The detail doesn't look bad. I really like it Doc, the mystry and intrigue are worth the 200 bucks. There are many more good eyes on this forum that haven't jumped in on this yet. May the Swartz be with you!

Jay

Ha. Not only the painting of the board, but the decision to epoxy the board across the back, both to support the wing, but also to allow mounting via screws, was really tacky. I mean, they poured epoxy all over...

I debated long and hard, and in the end decided to forgo any rear support and to drill some small holes in the studs; this so I could mount it in the fashion in which it was intended. I made no attempt to match any German machining (as if I could), and did not cut the studs down, so I feel this was OK-its still unfinished and would fool no one. I also opted to not attempt to reattach the wing, instead just mounting it tight against the body. It is, what it is...

I still hold hope that one day I can confirm building eagles were in fact mounted different from railroad ones. A premise that makes sense, but as yet I can find only anecdotal evidence of.

As for the crappy job, I assume it was the framing company that did the repair, rear board, and then spray. It was done professionally (from the case perspective), and there was a business address from a company in Jamaica New York. I imagine some vet, or his son, bringing in the broken pieces and saying "frame this". Not caring for the 'item's history", and not wanting to drill, they opted for a 'slap a board on it and paint it black so it does not show" approach. Externally, it looked pretty good...

I was really hoping that when I opened it there would be some historical info, vet name, location, etc. Alas, not to be. I plan to print this thread and insert in the case to try and document what is known, in case I should get hit by a bus.

And I agree. Likely the best 200 bones I ever spent. I did not feel much like working this week anyway.

The last pic, back in the pace its hung for ~ 12 years, but now less a mystery, in that I know what's there.....