Ebay withdraws holocaust items

[slados28]

You would probably have avoided any "misinterpretations" of your post if you only had ommitted the part about "self-delusion" and the apparent lack of knowledge and/or even interest in these "things" that most here collect.
There's nothing in there pointing to Wagriff or anyone else in particular, of course, but you managed to write up a pretty much one-sided blanket statement as to why some on here were wrong in their views in this museum vs. private collections debate, something I again can easily see being read as an insult (albeit not one directed at anyone directly, per se).

[StefanM]

I have to say that I agree with Wagriff here, not that I take it personally, as I do see some semblance of a partially rational undelying point, but the following quote is just nonsensical and really makes me wonder what kind of forum 4thskorpion is really referring to here:



Surely, the vast majority of topics on here showcase individual items and it is my experience that they are usually dissected intellectually at length in order to provide viewers, and oneself, with as much history and background as possible.
Of course, you should disregard a lot of "what is it worth" topics etc. that are indeed abuindant which naturally receive little response.

Please provide links to topics made by individuals posting in this topic in which they just display a bunch of "things" with no regard for what they really are or their history --- would be interesting... I can't really remember any overwhelming amount of such topics displaying this supposed lack of curiosity, background info and attempted further research Or maybe we just hang around in different sections on this forum? What do I know...

There is, however, a section for Collection displays --- you must have been hanging around there a bit too much.. I guess.

I see it as: A War Relics Forum for those that are interested in collecting war relics whose main raison d'être is to be a forum where members can exchange information about the field of collecting militaria. I find many posts by very knowledgeable and experienced collectors both educational and rewarding to me as a collector and someone interested in a broad range of militaria and its related history.

I did not say there was no intellectual exchange, however I did say there was often no context provided with many of the photos on the forum that one would and does get with an online museum such as IWM and others; sharing photos of our private collections on WRF does not equate to anywhere near the cultural or educational value imparted by a museum sharing its professionally curated collection online to Joe Public. Comparing posts on a forum which is about collecting for private collectors and a museum collection is IMO comparing moon rock with a tomato. I see a clear distinction between the two although it is apparent that some do not.

I do not hold the pretension or self-delusion of saving history by my collecting if I didn't collect someone else would; I am saving potential collectible items from being collected by others who also might collect in the same field, sometimes my pockets are deep enough or I am lucky enough to save something for my collection sometimes not, but it sure as hell is not saving history. I am sure that most if not all of us with private collections do not do this for the greater community but for our own personal satisfaction, enjoyment, intellectual stimulation etc after all it is our hard earned cash that supports our obsessive collecting compulsions.

I am hoping that none of the above is misconstrued as antagonistic it is merely my personal opinion and should be taken in the spirit cordiality intended

[StefanM]

You would probably have avoided any "misinterpretations" of your post if you only had ommitted the part about "self-delusion" and the apparent lack of knowledge and/or even interest in these "things" that most here collect.
There's nothing in there pointing to Wagriff or anyone else in particular, of course, but you managed to write up a pretty much one-sided blanket statement as to why some on here were wrong in their views in this museum vs. private collections debate, something I again can easily see being read as an insult (albeit not one directed at anyone directly, per se).

Of course I wrote a one-sided statement about why I believe some on here are wrong in their views in this museum vs. private collections debate, it is what I believe so why would that be insulting to anyone?

I don't think I wrote that there was no apparent interest or knowledge in the "things" we collect on here because if there wasn't then this forum wouldn't exist but equally I don't pretend it is something it is not or more than it is.

I did write that I consider the view that collectors collect to save history is a self-delusion about why collectors collect, it is my view, why that would be considered insulting is as non-sensical as it would be for me to find a contrary view insulting...crikey if that were the case then I would feel insulted all the time..which I don't, or maybe I should

[slados28]

Of course... I do not see myself as a saviour of human history either, I didn't know anyone here did, but there's definitely some middle ground here --- in between this moon rock and tomato

But I do feel that it is indeed counterproductive of you to be bringing up, once again, "self-delusion" or "pretense" as a way of describing those of another opinion than that which you yourself hold. It's also quite interesting to note that you say "I do not hold the pretension or self-delusion of saving history by my collecting if I didn't collect someone else would".... because in there you are clearly admitting that collecting is indeed of the positive for history, this in that we are, as often said here on this board, mere temporary caretakers of tiny bits of human history and nothing more... but, then you go on talking in grand terms about not being as pretentious as other thinking they're "saving human history" --- well, did anyone here in this thread, or anywhere on this board for that matter, actually claim they were?
Again, you're polarizing the two sides in this debate... reducing it all down to two sides where the opposing one seems to be "self delusional" considering tomatoes as being the equivalent of moon rocks..

The area in which we collect, mainly artifacts from wars/conflicts of the 1900s, are indeed largely overlooked by major museums and I must say that I bet you the most knowledgeable collectors on here can rival the most experienced general purpose curator anytime when it comes to in-depth knowledge on said artifacts from give periods/conflicts etc.
Thinking that the vast amount of detail oriented litterature on these subjects, very often based on year of collecting and thoughts and opinions derived from the collective pool of knowledge within the collectors community, is not a force of good when it comes to preservation and future understanding of past events is beyond ridiculous to me... but, again, I guess this would come down to how you class "human history" and what should be considered important and thereby eligible for preservation or not etc.

Also, the fact that not EVERY single thread on here is followed by tedious repetition and overly simplified captions detailing the era in which they are from, such as can be seen in public museums, is a good thing to me --- because, yes... just like you said, this is mainly a forum for COLLECTORS (not a public service, per se... although free valuations and history lessong frequntly do take place ) and these said collectors generally do know their history in their respective fields to a great extent making repeating things over and over again largely superfluous ---
Generally, if people are interested and curious about something they ask their questions and usually have them willingly answered by someone that knows.

In the end I do indeed view all of this as a middle ground in terms of an objective sense of purpose and meaning behind this collecting business of ours, a gray area if you will, in between the moon and said edibles (tomatoes)... something which you in your argumentation sadly seem to willfully ignore for the sake of making a strong and clear point.

[Jerry B]

Probably time to close this thread as we seem to be going back and for over the same ground and I think that any new insights are unlikely to be forthcoming.

An interesting topic and one that has stimulated much debate that has offered a number of viewpoints about why and what we collect and why for some of us there are items we don't collect which have a great appeal to others. All of this makes the collecting field an interesting place to be a part of and long may it continue in spite of the Ebay police and the tabloid press.