PLEASE HELP - TR GERMAN Cavalry SWORD?

**anton67** · 03-24-2018, 05:13 PM

Hello,
I have been offered this sword along with a WWI Pickelhaube for $650.00.
I would place the value of the Pickelhaube in the $350 range based on condition and the fact that it is missing cockarden and chinstrap.
That being said the sword would then cost me $300.
I do not know much about the sword but from what I have been able to find so far it appears to be a WWII era TR Cavalry sword.
I am told by the seller that it has a WKC manuf. mark on it.
I would like to know:
1. Is it in fact a TR calvlary sword? If not what is it?
2. Any other info about it would also be appreciated.
3. Is $300 in the ballpark for value of the sword in this condition. I am not asking for an exact value but I also do not want to over pay for it.
Thank you in advance.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 03-24-2018 05:13 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Watchdog** · 03-24-2018, 06:11 PM

Nope, it's definately not TR. It appears to be an imperial German officers sword of the type generally known as a "Lions head" for obvious reasons. I am not a sword buff so would not like to comment on originality but in any case these pics are not good enough for that. I think maybe the scabbard should be black but these come in many variations so this could be a parade scabbard rather than a field one. What would help is a clear image of the design on the langet (the tab on the lower edge of the crossguard) which indicates what regiments etc it belonged to. If it is crossed cannons that immediately says artillery but there are many more designs. If it were TR there would be a design including the Swastika on the langet.
However, if it is genuine and in good condition (can't judge the condition really from these pics) I would think that $300 is not over priced for the apparent condition but you should be aware that like swords in every army there were issued and private purchase versions so the quality was very wide ranged and that is always a factor with blade collectors.
I hope this helps but I am sure there will be a sword expert along shortly!

Regards

Mark

- - ------- - -

PS Meant to say, the langet that is fairly clear is the "reverse" langet which is a generic blank escutcheon often engraved with initials and it is the other "obverse"one that we need to see.

**rbminis** · 03-24-2018, 06:39 PM

It is an Imperial "Jawless" lion head sword and it appears to have two crossed swords on the langet which means it could be for Cavalry.
Ralph.

**sb98** · 03-24-2018, 07:30 PM

The nickel scabbard with two suspension rings points to this sword being from around 1900 give or take. The regulations changed and they went from two suspension rings to one in the early 1900's and shortly after they went to black scabbards.

**Frogprince** · 03-24-2018, 09:04 PM

An off duty model for a Cavalry Officer from a quality maker - my best recollection at the moment is that the single rings were circa 1910, and for private purchases the black or blued scabbards closer to the wartime years. Swords for some branch/specialized cavalry units and horse mounted officers being different. Best Regards, Fred

**Watchdog** · 03-24-2018, 09:04 PM

by rbminis

It is an Imperial "Jawless" lion head sword and it appears to have two crossed swords on the langet which means it could be for Cavalry.
Ralph.

Well done Ralph, I just couldn't make out the swords. The best I could dicern was something kind of cruciform.

Regards

Mark

**Frogprince** · 03-24-2018, 09:16 PM

by Watchdog

Well done Ralph, I just couldn't make out the swords. The best I could dicern was something kind of cruciform.

Regards

Mark

Confirmed - I had to do some fooling around with one of the images myself before I was sure of what it was. Best Regards, Fred

**sb98** · 03-24-2018, 09:34 PM

by Frogprince

An off duty model for a Cavalry Officer from a quality maker - my best recollection at the moment is that the single rings were circa 1910, and for private purchases the black or blued scabbards closer to the wartime years. Swords for some branch/specialized cavalry units and horse mounted officers being different. Best Regards, Fred

I think single rings were a few years earlier. On Tony's "Kaiser's Bunker" website he has these dates in his section on issued artillery sword models: "For the scabbard, two rings on a steel scabbard indicates pre-1906, in 1906 the lower ring was ordered removed, then in 1910 all scabbards were to be blackened. "

**Frogprince** · 03-25-2018, 02:08 AM

by sb98

The nickel scabbard with two suspension rings points to this sword being from around 1900 give or take. The regulations changed and they went from two suspension rings to one in the early 1900's and shortly after they went to black scabbards.

I don't know if we are on the same page or not, but a link to the website could help. The one I looked at has some information that does not reconcile with generally accepted facts, so I would like to see where he got his documentation/information.
Best Regards, Fred

**sb98** · 03-25-2018, 04:44 PM

by Frogprince

I don't know if we are on the same page or not, but a link to the website could help. The one I looked at has some information that does not reconcile with generally accepted facts, so I would like to see where he got his documentation/information.
Best Regards, Fred

Hi Fred,

Here's a link to the page I mentioned The Three Patterns of Artillerie Blankwaffen (sabres) . If he's not accurate, what were the official dates for the changes? I think I've also seen 1909 cited for the change to a single ring on a sword forum.

Thanks