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British sword identification

Article about: Can anyone help me identify this sword and what time period it’s from? Thank you in advance.

  1. #1

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    Can anyone help me identify this sword and what time period it’s from? Thank you in advance.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture British sword identification  

  2. #2

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    Well appears to be a British, Victorian era Pattern 1854 Infantry officer sword, but I'm not yet convinced it is not an Indian reproduction. Any maker mark or proof mark?

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    There is no marking on the sword I’m aware of.

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    A British made sword of the era would have at least a proof slug inside a star mark on the ricasso. With nothing, we are looking at a reproduction.

  5. #5

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    From the limited views that I can see I think that it's fairly likely that it's a legimate period example. The reproductions to my knowledge not going to the trouble of making the earlier type of folding guard, and the early scabbards prone to the type of damage that is seen in the images. Also the fairly common for that time period swords made in Germany for the British market did not always have the blade proof inserts. Needed are some closeups/much better photos. Best Regards, Fred

  6. #6

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    I'm not convinced Fred. The quality is not there for what it is claiming to be (by cypher) a Victorian era made sword. It's not British made, it would definitely have a slug and often and etched outfitter mark. I equally don't think it's Solingen made, in my experience they marked their swords and equally made quality swords. That leaves India, which has be reproducing British sword patterns since the time of the British Raj. They continue to do so with companies like Windlass. And those are my suspects of the subject sword. Compare the quality and detailing with this image of a British made sword. The OP's sword might be 20 or 30 years old, but it's not 120 years old, that's clear from the patina.

    British sword identification

    British sword identification

  7. #7

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    Quote by Anderson View Post
    I'm not convinced Fred. The quality is not there for what it is claiming to be (by cypher) a Victorian era made sword. It's not British made, it would definitely have a slug and often and etched outfitter mark. I equally don't think it's Solingen made, in my experience they marked their swords and equally made quality swords. That leaves India, which has be reproducing British sword patterns since the time of the British Raj. They continue to do so with companies like Windlass. And those are my suspects of the subject sword. Compare the quality and detailing with this image of a British made sword. The OP's sword might be 20 or 30 years old, but it's not 120 years old, that's clear from the patina.
    Anderson, I understand what you are saying but I'm afraid that I will have to respectfully disagree. First, the Indian made swords I have examined do a poor job of replicating the grips (and scabbards). Also, the degree of patina depends on how much and how well the original gold plating was applied. With the earlier high quality Napoleonic era swords it's not uncommon to see patina where the plating has worn off, but with less worn swords it's also not uncommon to see little to no patina with the gold still doing its job of protecting the base metal. As for the blade proof inserts if my memory serves me correctly it was Wilkinson that started the practice that was copied by others. The at least decade old image here showing some of their progression - I suspect that the earliest may have even been solid gold versus plated, with something else observed being that the numbers on the back of the blade are not on the earliest examples. Lastly, I've taken the liberty of enlarging some of the images which for me confirms my opinion of the sword as period irrespective of where it was made. Most respectfully and with my best regards, Fred
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  8. #8
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    Quote by KyleSchuette View Post
    Can anyone help me identify this sword and what time period it’s from? Thank you in advance.
    The cross-guard monogram is from Victoria Regina. Queen Victoria. The leather scabbard and the way the inside guard can be folded and the false edge it would suggest to me that it is a navy sword. The 1822 pattern is too early for Queen victoria she wasn't even born then. So I agree with Anderson this looks more like an pattern 1854 and could also be a pattern 1892.

    But there have been these kind of swords made in Germany also for the British private bought swords. I am saying this because the way the scabbard is made is very german and is a spiting image of the scabbard from the kaiserliche marine, reichsmarine or kriegsmarine and even before 1870 they made these kinds of leather scabbard with brass fittings.

    I have a similar sword, a Pattern 1854 with a metal scabbard, and that one has etching and a maker marking.

  9. #9
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    On a side note, I would clean the blade ASAP because of the brown (flash rust) it will otherwise not become any better. Be careful with the etching however.

  10. #10

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    Quote by estrij View Post
    The 1822 pattern is too early for Queen victoria she wasn't even born then.
    I can't comment on the sword with any degree of expertise but on a point of order;

    HM Queen Victoria was born on 24 May 1819 in Kensington Palace, London so she was very much alive in 1822. Of course she did not ascend the throne until 20 June 1837 but 1822 pattern swords would have been made with her cypher during her very long reign as well as initially with that of her predecessors HM King George IV 1820 - 1830 and HM King William IV 1830 - 1837

    Just saying

    Regards

    MArk
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

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