M4 Bayonet for review

[Alex W]

Hello everyone,

I have a M4 bayonet made by Camillus that hopefully someone can help with. I bought it in a group lot and without researching it first. Due to the very good condition I wrongly assumed it was a 90's made version. After researching I think it is a WW2 version that has been reworked as it does not have the plastic spacers in the grip just above the pommel and below the guard also the end of the pommel no longer has the starburst peen.

I've checked the blade against an original imperial M4 and its the right size and the finish is the same polished blue rather than rough parkarizing on M7s etc. The handle seems very well made and has the clearance holes for the pommel pins. The cross guard, pommel and handle are all tight with no movement. Apparently the very early M4s were made to be reworked as opposed to the later versions that were essentially disposable.

Can anyone tell if this is reworked in the US, another user country or a more modern job?

Any comments welcome.

Thanks

Alex

[Anderson]

Peening looks a bit rough.

[Alex W]

Anderson, the picture makes it look slightly worse than in hand but you’re right the peening looks rough. I’ve compared it to photos of a few M4s with rubber grips as they are supposedly reworked and their peening looks relatively normal just without the starburst. I would like to compare it with a reworked M4 with leather handle but can’t seem to find any online. I’m leaning towards the grip replacement being a home job.

[Rescue190]

I agree with the leather replacement being a home job back when you could find leather washers. Nice M4 overall.
John

[Sleepwalker]

Hello,

the leather rings on the handle have been completely renewed. In addition, the plastic spacers are missing at the top and bottom.

For this purpose, the butt plate was loosened and later peened again. You can tell by the peen... it's not the original "starburst" peen.
Overall, the piece was also completely blued. In the original state they were phosphated.

Possibly a later revision or possibly made in South Korea. But large quantities of M4s from liquidated stocks were also recently fitted with new grips, since the old ones were obsolete and the aim was to make more profit from the sale.

You also have to be careful when comparing them to the rubber grips. There are the ones from US stocks that were probably modified as a wear test and the M4 with a rubber grip from South Korea.


Here a Camillus made 1944-45












Regards

[Tomasz70]

To dispel doubts - looks to be genuine WWII specimen.
Alec Tulkoff in his "Grunt gear" says that M4s had leather washers and some variants had plastic spacers.
Bruce Canfield in "US small arms of World War II" writes the same. He showes as well the photo of non used M4 bayo in original box, with all leather spacers, without plactic inserts.
My two M4 have plastic inserts (Imperial and Camillus), but it does not decide about the historical true.
The most reliable source is:
Bayo Points 16
Gary Cunningham in Bayonet Point's "The US Bayonet-Knife, M4 (First Production 1944-45)" indicates that "Some makers used brown plastic spacers at each end of the grip."
More information on the subject can be found in:
Bayo Points 17
and
Bayo Points 8
In the last article you may find some confirmation of your theory, but it was true in case of Camillus - during the war his M4 were attached with plastic elements, after the war same modification was applied

Anyway, bayonet showed at the beginning of this thread is a nice wartime manufacture - pins indicate that it was made not later than in February 1945

[Alex W]

Thanks for the reply Tomas. I relied on bayonet points 8 when researching this bayonet. It has an early buttplate and therefore should have the plastic spacers on each end of the handle. The buttplate doesn't have the starburst peen that an early buttplate should have and I haven't been able to find a camillus M4 online that matches mine which is why i think it has been reworked.

[Tomasz70]

Yes, we cannot exclude that it has been reworked. One is however certain - it was heavily beaten and damage is visible on the pommel. It could be caused by unskillful reworking action, but it may be a result of using the buttplate as a hammer in the field. Who knows...?

[Rescue190]

Yes, we cannot exclude that it has been reworked. One is however certain - it was heavily beaten and damage is visible on the pommel. It could be caused by unskillful reworking action, but it may be a result of using the buttplate as a hammer in the field. Who knows...?

Hope is not a plan. It has been clearly reworked post war. Does not matter when.
John

[Tomasz70]

If so, then everything indicates that reworking was done "at home", crudely - if it was done by professional, contracted plant it probably would have straight (hollow) pin in place of the tapered pin.