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Odd Pattern 1937 webbing; WW2/Post War

Article about: First look appears like usual WW2 era Pattern 37 webbing water bottle carrier, but the attachment belt hooks were a surprise to me. The maker mark appears to by the Canadian company of ZL&am

  1. #1

    Default Odd Pattern 1937 webbing; WW2/Post War

    First look appears like usual WW2 era Pattern 37 webbing water bottle carrier, but the attachment belt hooks were a surprise to me. The maker mark appears to by the Canadian company of ZL& T Ltd, date is 1943 or 1944. But curiously on one strap is a Nato Stock Number, which looks like 8455-66-013-7640. My understanding "66" is country code for Australia.

    My question; is the belt attachment modification WW2 or post war, (as the NSC number suggests) and was this a piece of Australian kit?

    Odd Pattern 1937 webbing; WW2/Post WarOdd Pattern 1937 webbing; WW2/Post WarOdd Pattern 1937 webbing; WW2/Post WarOdd Pattern 1937 webbing; WW2/Post War

  2. #2

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    Yep post war done and was done for the Aust army plus going by memory it was done in the 60's.

  3. #3

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    Thanks mate, that's what I expected. Would it have been used in combination with P1957 webbing?

  4. #4

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    I think it was? I've asked a Mate if he can remember the details on these as it is out there somewhere.

  5. #5

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    An interesting item/modification.

    I wonder when we started using the Nato Stock Number?

    May be done post-war but to my eyes, the belt attachment still looks like it was designed to attach on a Pattern 37 webbing belt.

  6. #6
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    I have one as well. They still show up in remote Army Disposals stores. My theory is that they are early Vietnam issue before the green American style webbing came in. Mid 1960's maybe.

  7. #7

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    I was issued 37 Pattern webbing as a Junior Soldier in 1979. It was not used with the later 44 pattern or 58 pattern with the exception of the Large pack as the other pieces were incompatible and would not fit. By the 80's 58 pattern was in full use everywhere and I still think it was the most comfortable of all the webbings (current included).

    I still have my 'normal' 58 Pattern, my custom 58 Pattern, (All waterbottle pouches instead of the kidney pouches) and both the large pack and original Bergan in the attic somewhere!

    Oh and I have a set of Alice from Vietnam as the SF were issued it in the 70 - 80's.

  8. #8

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    Yes this is interesting. I have been looking at Vietnam Australian used webbing lately. And I am finding a mix of p37 p44 p56 also seen seen US made for Australian issue. And I think I have one or two of these Watters bottle holders as well in the pile.

  9. #9

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    Quote by christek View Post
    An interesting item/modification.

    I wonder when we started using the Nato Stock Number?

    May be done post-war but to my eyes, the belt attachment still looks like it was designed to attach on a Pattern 37 webbing belt.
    I think every country started using the NSN marking on stores (it would have been used in national accounting systems earlier than this because of items already manufactured and in the supply system) at different times and I am not aware of items being commonly "retro-marked" (although it did happen on major equipments) so the point here is that by definition if an item has a NSN it must be post-war and at least 1949 at the earliest at which time '37 patt remained very much extant.

    For my part, the first kit I was issued in 1975 did not carry NSN but most of the clothing carried "NATO size 1,2,3 etc" markings. I recall the NSN markings appearing circa 1980.

    I also recall units such as the Royal Engineers for example using '37 patt into the early '80s at least.

    Regards

    Mark
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  10. #10

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    Quote by vegetius View Post
    I was issued 37 Pattern webbing as a Junior Soldier in 1979.
    This is one example of obsolescent (as opposed to obsolete) kit in service and there are many more.

    For context, I joined the Infantry Junior Leaders Battalion (IJLB) aka "Junior Bleeders"
    in 1975 and we had only '58 patt. The odd piece of '44 patt did show up amongst the kit in the company stores but woe betide anyone who tried to use it on his '58 patt kit (10 laps of the drill square with rifle held above the head for starters!!)

    Regards

    Mark
    Last edited by Watchdog; 02-26-2020 at 01:30 PM. Reason: Typo
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

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