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08-10-2022 04:54 PM
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I am not sure I can add much to this other than confirming that the data plate does fit the time frame for an early HE111 loss during the 1940 timeframe.
I would suggest posting it on the forum below for additional help regarding the possible werknummer of the aircraft, which isn’t possible from this piece as far as I know;
Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum - Powered by vBulletin
If you are able to give us an approximate date or location it may be possible to have a stab at identifying the plane and crew from published sources.
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BlackCat1982
I am not sure I can add much to this other than confirming that the data plate does fit the time frame for an early HE111 loss during the 1940 timeframe.
I would suggest posting it on the forum below for additional help regarding the possible werknummer of the aircraft, which isn’t possible from this piece as far as I know;
Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum - Powered by vBulletin
If you are able to give us an approximate date or location it may be possible to have a stab at identifying the plane and crew from published sources.
Thank you, I will see what else I can dig up about the location and date. The Luftwaffe forum was indeed my first point of call but they do not appear to be allowing new registrarants at this stage. I will keep an eye on it and hope they re-open!
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With a rough location and date we might be able to narrow the odds. As already said this plate doesn't include the werknummer of the aircraft. A nice souvenir by someone at the time and it would be good to be able to place it within more context.
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BlackCat1982
With a rough location and date we might be able to narrow the odds. As already said this plate doesn't include the werknummer of the aircraft. A nice souvenir by someone at the time and it would be good to be able to place it within more context.
Thank you for this. I am asking on behalf of somebody else who asked me to investigate so sadly the narrative is a bit patchy. It was acquired by the gentleman's mother via an Air Warden, believed c1940 in "one of the Home Counties south of London" (presumably, therefore, Hampshire, Sussex, Surrey or Kent). I did have a look at all of the Heinkel land-based crashes for this time in that area and found the following two possible matches:
12th July '40 - Heinkel He 111P, Horse and Jockey Inn, Hampshire (no registration given on aviation-safety.net)
26 August '40 -Heinkel He 111P, Bracklesham Beach, West Sussex, G1+DM
However, I don't know how I would go further on pinning it down.
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Not got my books in front of me to check the 12th July crash, however on HE111 G1 + DM I have this:
He 111P Werknummer #2124 "G1 + DM" of the 4 Staffel of Kampfgeschwader 55.
Pilot Lt Albert Metzger was taken POW on 26th August, 1940; shot down with wounds by a Spitfire of RAF No. 602 Sq., piloted by Sgt B.E.P. Whall during an attack on Portsmouth Harbour. The aircraft sustained more than 500 bullet strikes. Remaining crew (KIA, all buried at Cannock Chase, Plot 1, Row 3): Uffz Rolf Schandner, Observer, Uffz Rudi Paas, R/O, Feldwebel Julius Urhahn, Flt Engr, and Flg Rudolf Fessel, Gunner.
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Thank you so much! That's fascinating information. Out of interest, which book(s) would you consider the most useful reference on this topic?
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Caroline Dennard
Thank you so much! That's fascinating information. Out of interest, which book(s) would you consider the most useful reference on this topic?
For starters;
"The Battle of Britain Then & Now" by Winston Ramsey published by After the Battle - they have been recently taken over by Pen & Sword Publications but most of the After the Battle books are still in print. You can pick up used copies at reasonable prices. It includes all aircraft losses, allied and axis during the Battle of Britain period.
If you want more then you might consider that After the Battle also published a 3 volume set on the Blitz Then & Now which chronicles incidents and crashes from 1939-45 on the UK mainland.
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Thank you very much, once again. Based on the information you have provided, we managed to find a probable match. It turns out that the owner's mother worked at Portsmouth Harbour in 1940, so it could well be related to that.
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