SS-VT LAH Erkennungsmarken

**Glenn66** · 11-21-2011, 01:57 PM

This lovely example arrived yesterday from my good friend in Murmansk.
I'm taking a guess here that the disc is an early one due to the low stammrollennummer and the fact that the SS-VT became the Waffen SS in mid 1940. Additionally the LAH became the LSSAH in 1934 so perhaps the owner was a member prior to 1934?

As the disc was found in Northern Karelia the owner must have been transferred from the replacement LAH to the SS Division Nord where he met his end. Odd that the disc is whole yet was ground dug as I would expect a find with remains to be broken in two. Thats a mystery that won't be answered I fear.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 11-21-2011 01:57 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Little Mermaid** · 11-21-2011, 02:01 PM

Congrats, Glenn... Now the waiting´s over!

**Paul D** · 11-21-2011, 02:37 PM

Glenn it's not totally uncommon to find whole tags without remains , they were lost on the Battlefield for a variety of reasons . Nord was made up of many early SS veterans particulary SS TV as the Nord Infanterie Regts were orginally Totenkopf Infanterie Regimenrs.

Equally many whole tags are found with remains as they were eithewr MIA or KIA but not possible for recovery from the Battlefield , without knowing who the tag was issued to it's hard to know !!

cheers

Paul

**Woolgar** · 11-21-2011, 03:00 PM

Congrats Glenn, that is a real gem

**Glenn66** · 11-21-2011, 03:26 PM

Thanks Paul, I agree that it is impossible to guess how and why the tag was found whole. Perhaps the soldier was left behind during a retreat, perhaps he was buried as a result of a trench or bunker collapse or more happily, perhaps the tag was discarded prior to capture.

I also agree that Nord comprised alot of early SS members and 6th & 7th Totenkopfverbände (Deaths Head) units. This tag (unfortunatly broken) was included with my SS-VT purchase and illustrates the mixture of VT and TV troops in Kampfgruppe Nord as it was known prior to the redesignation to 6. SS-Gebirgs-Division Nord in spring 1941.

**Paul D** · 11-21-2011, 03:29 PM

Another nice tag Glenn

**Glenn66** · 11-21-2011, 03:53 PM

Thanks guys!
These pieces are my favourites at the moment but then, isn't every new purchase?

**Paul D** · 11-21-2011, 04:03 PM

by Glenn66

Thanks guys!
These pieces are my favourites at the moment but then, isn't every new purchase?

Only until the digging season next year !!

**Matt L** · 11-21-2011, 05:42 PM

A very nice original example indeed

by Paul E

Glenn it's not totally uncommon to find whole tags without remains , they were lost on the Battlefield for a variety of reasons . Nord was made up of many early SS veterans particulary SS TV as the Nord Infanterie Regts were orginally Totenkopf Infanterie Regimenrs.

Equally many whole tags are found with remains as they were eithewr MIA or KIA but not possible for recovery from the Battlefield , without knowing who the tag was issued to it's hard to know !!

cheers

Paul

Indeed- discs are found just by themselves daily in Europe; something like 17 million men served in the German military and the vast majority survived the war, so there were LOTS of discs. They ended up at surrender sites, field aid stations and hospitals, as well as just being discarded by soldiers not wanting to be identified. The trouble is a whole disc found with remains could represent an MIA case and that's where it's very bad to buy them- one should always do all possible to ensure the seller is not taking MIA discs. Two million men are still listed as missing and living family still feel that loss. I always made it quite clear to sellers that I wasn't interested in anything taken from a body nor would deal with anyone who couldn't swear he never dealt with people who did. Luckily, the odds are way in favour of it being a loss, discard, etc.

Interestingly, these Ersatz Bataillon LAH discs aren't rare- I had one once, and I've seen a number of them over the years. My understanding is that Erkennungsmarken weren't issued to soldiers as a matter of course, but only once they were deployed in the field with expectation of action; so really the earliest ones you'll see generally date to 1938 or so. And while 'LSSAH' did occur on discs, just plain 'LAH' is far more common; I've actually never seen an 'LSSAH' disc, but have a photo of the first page of an SS-Soldbuch showing it was the man's Erkennungsmarke marking. I've actually got two field LAH discs myself, and have seen 5 or 6 of these Ersatz discs at least.

The SS-Ersatz-Bataillon Leibstandarte is listed as having been created on 26.8.1939, so your disc dates from perhaps two or three 'classes' after if a replacement Kompanie numbered around 120 men (not sure of that). Presumably that'd make it maybe a late 1939 or early 1940 issue. That early he wouldn't have gone to anyone but the LAH I should think- he must have gone north later.