Authentic Garde Schutzen?

[Bodey]

Hello everyone,

Today I have the opportunity to purchase this Garde-Schutzen officers visor. I have been studying the thread that already exists on these types of caps, however I do not see any examples from this maker (Engler?). Is this an authentic visor? If better pictures are needed please let me know.

Thank you!
Michael

[drmessimer]

Bodey, I am not sure, but it looks to me to be a knock-off copy, and a very good one. My reason for thinking that is that it looks too new; no sign of wear or aging. There is a company in the UK called War Hats that is a source for excellent reproduction hats from both wars. Their hats are often made by the original manufacturer. War Hats does not sell their hats as originals; when you buy one from them, you know that you are buying a copy. I have three of their copies, like the one shown here, a 1908 model officer’s and warrant officer’s cap worn by a member of the U-Deutschland crew. The cap is even accurate down to the company cap badge. The upper lining in yours looks to be the same sort of cotton lining that mine has, but the maker’s name in yours is different and much higher quality than mine. The point is that it is possible to buy an exact reproduction of any visor hat worn by any national in WWI or WWII, and then sell it as a well-kept original. My gut feeling tells me that is what you have here. Dwight

[Bodey]

Bodey, I am not sure, but it looks to me to be a knock-off copy, and a very good one. My reason for thinking that is that it looks too new; no sign of wear or aging. There is a company in the UK called War Hats that is a source for excellent reproduction hats from both wars. Their hats are often made by the original manufacturer. War Hats does not sell their hats as originals; when you buy one from them, you know that you are buying a copy. I have three of their copies, like the one shown here, a 1908 model officer’s and warrant officer’s cap worn by a member of the U-Deutschland crew. The cap is even accurate down to the company cap badge. The upper lining in yours looks to be the same sort of cotton lining that mine has, but the maker’s name in yours is different and much higher quality than mine. The point is that it is possible to buy an exact reproduction of any visor hat worn by any national in WWI or WWII, and then sell it as a well-kept original. My gut feeling tells me that is what you have here. Dwight

This is terrifying! The seller is advertising it as unissued, however to my understanding this is a rather rare unit, so it would not make much sense that there would be a surplus of these caps laying around, which would support your theory. Thanks for the info!

[drmessimer]

Bodey, you are right that there would not be a surplus of those hats laying around, more so by the fact that officers bought their uniforms, including the hat. They were not a standard issue item that was sitting on the quartermaster's supply shelf waiting to be handed out. In the case of my U-Deutschland crewman's hat there were two cargo U-boat crews; the U-Deutschland crew and the U-Bremen crew, with 26 men and officers in each. The U-Bremen crew were all lost at sea, so that's 26 hats literally down the drain. Of the remaining 26 hats, it's possible that a couple are out there somewhere, but in over 40 years, I have never seen a real one, so I had War hats make one for me. I wrote two books about the boats, so the hat has a particular importance to me. War Hats went to the original maker, Robert Lubstein, which is still in business, to have the hat made, As it turned out, the Robert Lubstein company had the original cap badge drawings and patterns as well. So, what I got is a genuine Robert Lubstein 1908 officer's cap with the correct DOR cap badge. Despite all that, the hat is still a reproduction and not an original. But I am happy to have it. The Best, Dwight

[Chopperman]

... the Robert Lubstein company had the original cap badge drawings and patterns as well. So, what I got is a genuine Robert Lubstein 1908 officer's cap with the correct DOR cap badge. Despite all that, the hat is still a reproduction and not an original. But I am happy to have it. The Best, Dwight

You can't get much closer than that.

[Bodey]

Bodey, you are right that there would not be a surplus of those hats laying around, more so by the fact that officers bought their uniforms, including the hat. They were not a standard issue item that was sitting on the quartermaster's supply shelf waiting to be handed out. In the case of my U-Deutschland crewman's hat there were two cargo U-boat crews; the U-Deutschland crew and the U-Bremen crew, with 26 men and officers in each. The U-Bremen crew were all lost at sea, so that's 26 hats literally down the drain. Of the remaining 26 hats, it's possible that a couple are out there somewhere, but in over 40 years, I have never seen a real one, so I had War hats make one for me. I wrote two books about the boats, so the hat has a particular importance to me. War Hats went to the original maker, Robert Lubstein, which is still in business, to have the hat made, As it turned out, the Robert Lubstein company had the original cap badge drawings and patterns as well. So, what I got is a genuine Robert Lubstein 1908 officer's cap with the correct DOR cap badge. Despite all that, the hat is still a reproduction and not an original. But I am happy to have it. The Best, Dwight

Cheers mate, I hope you find one someday!