Imperial Bavarian (?) great-coat, dated 1916/1919

[Fiore]

Gentlemen,

Appreciate opinions on this 1916-dated Bavarian (?) great-coat, especially on the interior markings. It's in very good shape for it's age, with all buttons present, though a few of the smaller ones on the tail and under the collar look replaced (as one might expect over the course of 108 years).

Interior has some faded red ink-stamps, a numeral 'XVI' and what looks line 'Nr. 316**' something? Any idea what the Roman numerals as well as the other stamps signify?

Interestingly the coat is named and dated 1919, which leads me to think it might have been re-issued or used post-war (I like to imagine a Freikorps man here, but who knows?).

There don't appear to be traces of shoulder-boards sewn into the seams but there is the remains of a thread for a button on the right shoulder. No discolouration either where shoulder-boards might have been. Odd?

Thanks for looking!

[kabl]

Hello,
Bist du dir sicher, daß es ein bayerischer Mantel ist?
Ich würde auf Preußen gehen...
Der Stempel "BD III" und "1916" steht meiner Meinung nach für " III. Armeekorps (Berlin) , B ekleidungs- D epot im Jahre 1916.
Das III. Armeekorps war ein preußischer Verband.
292 AR?? If it says so, it could be the 292nd Artillery Regiment.

R. Schindhelm was the porter/soldier who lived in Mitwitz in 1919
Mitwitz is a market in the Upper Franconian district of Kronach in Bavaria.

In any case, the owner was a Bavarian


Greetings
kabl

[VtwinVince]

I agree with the resident of Dummland's assessment.

[Enthusiast]

Hello,
I came across a similar 1916 greatcoat with kind of the same stamp B.D.III and the consent was that it stands for Bekleidungs-Depot -Nummer 3.The Bavarians did name it a little different than the Prussians. And if you take it this way you see that the roman numbers XVI - XVII stand for Maschinengewehr Abteilung .
The other numbers I don't know.

[kabl]

Hello,
Here is some information about the sewn buttons on the coat... These also identify the piece as a Prussian...

[Enthusiast]

Hi again,
there is a book , written bei Jürgen Kraus :"Die deutsche Armee im Ersten Weltkrieg, Uniformierung und Ausrüstung- 1914 bis 1918" and on page 193 , beside an picture of a Bavarian greatcoat -with Prussian Crown button-is written :"Bayrischer Einheitsmantel für Mannschaften M1916 - In Bayern wurde der Einheitsmantel nach preussischen Vorbild mit AE vom 31.03.1916 eingeführt. Er erhielt ebenfalls Knöpfe mit geprägter Krone , die in Bayern bislang nicht gebräuchlich waren....."
I think that we can not judge the greatcoat just by the buttons but by the stamps inside.

[kabl]

Hello,
Interesting....
Correct me if I'm wrong...
The Prussian stamps "BA" plus Roman numeral (Army Corps)
The Bavarian stamps "BD" Plus Roman numeral (Army Corps)?
Then the "BD" or "BA" stamp makes the coat Bavarian or Prussian?
Did I understand that correctly?
Thanks

[Fiore]

Hello,
Interesting....
Correct me if I'm wrong...
The Prussian stamps "BA" plus Roman numeral (Army Corps)
The Bavarian stamps "BD" Plus Roman numeral (Army Corps)?
Then the "BD" or "BA" stamp makes the coat Bavarian or Prussian?
Did I understand that correctly?
Thanks

That appears to be the case, yes.

[kabl]

Hello,
Good discussion and thanks for pointing out "BD" vs "BA"... I wasn't entirely aware of that, and I used to assume that Bavarian uniform buttons had a "lion" on them or were "neutrally grained".
Learned
kabl

[Enthusiast]

Hi,
292 is the manufacturer code. It is not easy , not everything is as straight forward with the Germans as you think it would .
Nice talking to you. Probably found the owner , Ludwig Robert Schindhelm born 21.1.1888.