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M16 Stahlhelm

Article about: Hello! I am relatively new to collecting, especially helmets. I recently noticed M16 helmet, with M17 liner band, marked ET-64 for sale, but i am not sure about few things- like was this hel

  1. #1

    Default M16 Stahlhelm

    Hello!

    I am relatively new to collecting, especially helmets. I recently noticed M16 helmet, with M17 liner band, marked ET-64 for sale, but i am not sure about few things- like was this helmet used by Armed forces of Imperial Germany or Austro- Hungary? Is the paint WW1 period correct or applied in WW2, also the damage to the helmet?( i have found battledamaged items myself, but to me it seems that the helmet shell was mechanically damaged by some tool- maybe pick-axe?) Thank You in advance.

    With best regards,
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture M16 Stahlhelm   M16 Stahlhelm  

    M16 Stahlhelm   M16 Stahlhelm  

    M16 Stahlhelm   M16 Stahlhelm  

    M16 Stahlhelm   M16 Stahlhelm  

    M16 Stahlhelm   M16 Stahlhelm  


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  3. #2

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    Its an M16 Imperial German army helmet as used during WW1. The paint is original and has darkened with age and patina and the helmet looks nice and untouched. Pick-axe strikes more often than not appear to be more in the centre of the dome. The damage looks to be more related to some form of high velocity impact. Nice find!

    Andy

  4. #3

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    Here's another M16 for comparison.
    Battle Damaged M16 G62 Camo Helmet

  5. #4

    Default

    I see an untouched M16/M17 with original green paint. Used by the German Imperial Army. Lot of German produced helmet were delivered to the K.u.K. Army because the Austrians couldn't produce enough for their own army. The K.u.K. also used the color brown, known as 'Isonzo' brown on their own produced helmets. These were used at the Italian front. I don't know if his color was also used at the eastern front.

    M16 Stahlhelm

    So most likely this helmet was used by the German Imperial Army since the seller is based in Albert, France, that's the Somme front. And as Andy pointed out; you have a battle damaged helmet in a nice condition.

    Cheers Paul
    Last edited by Irish1965; 01-20-2022 at 01:42 PM.

  6. #5

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    Quote by AndyM35 View Post
    Its an M16 Imperial German army helmet as used during WW1. The paint is original and has darkened with age and patina and the helmet looks nice and untouched. Pick-axe strikes more often than not appear to be more in the centre of the dome. The damage looks to be more related to some form of high velocity impact. Nice find!

    Andy
    Hi,
    Thanks again Andy, for taking Your time and explaining some of the things. I was curious where there several or one specific tone of paint- by regulations used during WW1 by Imperial german army, and how were they applied, with brush or sprayed? I saw Your WW1 helmet- which is wonderfull piece by the way. And how common where the camouflaged helmets?

  7. #6

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    Quote by Oberschutze View Post
    Hi,
    Thanks again Andy, for taking Your time and explaining some of the things. I was curious where there several or one specific tone of paint- by regulations used during WW1 by Imperial german army, and how were they applied, with brush or sprayed? I saw Your WW1 helmet- which is wonderfull piece by the way. And how common where the camouflaged helmets?
    Hi Oberschutze,

    Field grey is the colour designation for Imperial German WW1 helmets, however they can be found in a variety of different shades dependent on who the manufacturer was. For example Bing (Gebrueder Bing A.G., Nuernberg) made helmets are often found in a darker shade of field grey while BF (F.C. Bellinger, Fulda) are often noted for their paint runs made during the painting process. Keep in mind that time and storage have also effected the colour of the paint meaning that a lighter field grey may now appear much darker. You can get an idea of the colour of the paint by looking inside where the helmet has seen less sunlight. The paint had a matte appearance when these helmets were first issued to soldiers but multiple handling during the war and in the years since has seem seem become somewhat more shiny as seen in your example.

    The paint was applied with a spray gun unless the helmet was being re-issued or a camouflage applied in which case it was applied with a paint brush. Camouflaged Imperial German helmets are not so rare as a July 1918 directive by the Chief of General staff Ludendorff, stated that all helmets be camouflaged. However not all were camouflaged and some were reissued to the reichswehr or for use by the third Reich in which case the camo was painted over. The biggest issue today in acquiring an original camo is the multitude of fakes camos, so it pays to study hundreds of images or to view originals in hand where possible before spending lots of $$.

    Andy

  8. #7

    Default

    Quote by Irish1965 View Post
    I see an untouched M16/M17 with original green paint. Used by the German Imperial Army. Lot of German produced helmet were delivered to the K.u.K. Army because the Austrians couldn't produce enough for their own army. The K.u.K. also used the color brown, known as 'Isonzo' brown on their own produced helmets. These were used at the Italian front. I don't know if his color was also used at the eastern front.

    M16 Stahlhelm

    So most likely this helmet was used by the German Imperial Army since the seller is based in Albert, France, that's the Somme front. And as Andy pointed out; you have a battle damaged helmet in a nice condition.

    Cheers Paul
    Thanks, i know a friend of mine owns helmet which has been at some point reissued during WW2 probably since it has been repainted, but it still has the brownish-green paint under it in the areas where the 2nd layer of paint has worn off.

  9. #8

    Default

    Quote by AndyM35 View Post
    Hi Oberschutze,

    Field grey is the colour designation for Imperial German WW1 helmets, however they can be found in a variety of different shades dependent on who the manufacturer was. For example Bing (Gebrueder Bing A.G., Nuernberg) made helmets are often found in a darker shade of field grey while BF (F.C. Bellinger, Fulda) are often noted for their paint runs made during the painting process. Keep in mind that time and storage have also effected the colour of the paint meaning that a lighter field grey may now appear much darker. You can get an idea of the colour of the paint by looking inside where the helmet has seen less sunlight. The paint had a matte appearance when these helmets were first issued to soldiers but multiple handling during the war and in the years since has seem seem become somewhat more shiny as seen in your example.

    The paint was applied with a spray gun unless the helmet was being re-issued or a camouflage applied in which case it was applied with a paint brush. Camouflaged Imperial German helmets are not so rare as a July 1918 directive by the Chief of General staff Ludendorff, stated that all helmets be camouflaged. However not all were camouflaged and some were reissued to the reichswehr or for use by the third Reich in which case the camo was painted over. The biggest issue today in acquiring an original camo is the multitude of fakes camos, so it pays to study hundreds of images or to view originals in hand where possible before spending lots of $$.

    Andy
    Oh, this information will be usefull to "study" this particular topic more seriously. How about batch/ lot nr. i had seen them stamped on top of the helmet- does it indicate that helmet was strictly related to Austro-Hungary or was the placement random? I was wondering because, a friend of mine owns a M16 helmet- with lot nr. stamped on top of helmet shell and it does have the brownish-green paint underneath the feldgrau which was applied later- maybe in WW2. About camouflaged helmets it would be interesting topic- i can't recall if i ever had seen photos from Eastern front in WW1- more specific Baltic region/ Latvia- it seems that the germans used pickelhelm mostly, where they a Western front "thing"? But then again i barely had time to dive into the topic.

  10. #9

    Default

    Pickelhaubes were used mostly up until the introduction of the first steel helmets which actually occurred in late 1915 with the square dip being trialed at Verdun in early 1916.. Having said that I’ve read that Pickelhaubes could still be seen at the rear of the battlefield where they would have come under direct fire. After steel helmets started to be made in mass in 1916, they took over as the predominant piece of head protection for the frontline German soldier.

    Austrian helmets commonly had their lot numbers stamped on top but some have no lot number at all. I would say your friend has an Austrian helmet. If the helmet has chinstrap bolts for retaining the chinstrap, you will notice they sit higher than the German ones They were also a different colour. Would be interesting to see some photos.

    Edit: a photo of a square dip. Said to have been only 30,000 made and now quite scarce.
    M16 Stahlhelm
    Last edited by AndyM35; 01-21-2022 at 11:59 PM. Reason: Addition of photo.

  11. #10

    Default

    Quote by AndyM35 View Post
    Pickelhaubes were used mostly up until the introduction of the first steel helmets which actually occurred in late 1915 with the square dip being trialed at Verdun in early 1916.. Having said that I’ve read that Pickelhaubes could still be seen at the rear of the battlefield where they would have come under direct fire. After steel helmets started to be made in mass in 1916, they took over as the predominant piece of head protection for the frontline German soldier.

    Austrian helmets commonly had their lot numbers stamped on top but some have no lot number at all. I would say your friend has an Austrian helmet. If the helmet has chinstrap bolts for retaining the chinstrap, you will notice they sit higher than the German ones They were also a different colour. Would be interesting to see some photos.

    Edit: a photo of a square dip. Said to have been only 30,000 made and now quite scarce.
    M16 Stahlhelm
    Oh, allright. I will try to ask permision to make some photos, when i will have chance to visit my buddy, he is sometimes not on the spot so to speak.
    Last edited by Oberschutze; 01-22-2022 at 11:16 AM.

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