The lack of canneleur groove, (Crimping groove to our colonial friends) is because the cart case is crimped into a groove on the driving band, (rotating band in colonial). The ballistic cap, (windshield in colonial) is missing. This is a solid tungsten so in UK would be worth good money as scrap! I have to admit I have not had time to look into it as work and EOD on the ground has been very busy for the last week and obviously takes priority.
If it is M339 AP-T it would not have had a ballistic cap.... so it is not missing. It would be a APC-T if it was supposed to have a cap.
Solid tungsten ??? Not true at all and the original manual that stated this was compiled wrongly.
The base "tracer" looks suspiciously like the remains of a base fuze, possibly M66.
Interesting projectile. I found a similar one in Normandy that had obviously come from a M10 tank destroyer.
The constant references to " colonial " are interesting and puzzling.
It's British humour, that's all. We love to have a laugh at anyone's expense, including ourselves, but it's all good-natured.by normandie44
B.B.
Thank you. I agree there is too little laughter in the world these days and given the current circumstances we REALLY need a good chuckle.
This is a wonderful site and I have gained a lot of info since joining.
A pleasure to meet you
Normandie, You said "If it is M339 AP-T it would not have had a ballistic cap.... so it is not missing" The M339 is fitted with a 'Windshield' which in the local vernacular translates into a Ballistic Cap, which is missing!
The projectile is solid tungsten, I may be wrong but I'm quoting the original American Technical Manual, "The solid tungsten carbide projectile is fitted with a lightweight windshield to provide a better ballistic shape. A tracer is located at the base of the projectile."
Your comment, "The base "tracer" looks suspiciously like the remains of a base fuze, possibly M66." Sorry but no. The M66 is like many Base Detonating Fuze's in that it is located within the projectile body but the Fuze's body is shaped as a truncated cone that is outside the rear of the projectile and provides a tracer housing.
What is worth noting on the M66 is that the Fuze only has a single safety feature, a soft steel washer that is overcome by the inertia of the firing pin on impact and permits the firing pin block to move forwards and the firing pin to impinge on the percussion cap therefore starting the explosive train. In modern parlance it would be 1.2F indicating a Fuze without two or more effective safety features and indicating that it would be considered exceptionally dangerous if found as a blind projectile.
I have to however concede that the lack of canneleur groove got me! This Round, (M339) is described as having, " The specially designed rotating band has a crimping groove which permits the cartridge case to be assembled over the rotating ban and rigidly crimped to it." So in English, the specially designed Driving Band, (DB) has a Canneleur Groove for the Cartridge Case to be crimped into. An unusual piece of design but I can see some technical advantages to that design.
B.B.,
Thank you for explaining our humour! It is sometimes problematic, (you should see the problems I have with the sécurité civile demineur) although the German EOD seem to share a similar outlook on life as us!
Point taken..... I see the error of my ways.
My confusion comes because, if it is an armour piercing projectile, it should have no cap. On the other hand, a projectile with a cap is an APC-T projectile....vague as that sounds. However, I take your point.
As to it being solid tungsten, surely that is not right...... I have read somewhere that the original specs were badly written. A full calibre tungsten projectile would be SO heavy. Most tungsten rounds utilise a smaller, sub calibre tungsten core...all the German AP 40 rounds, Brit 6 and 17 Pr etc etc. But maybe the US had money to throw away.
I know what you mean about the demineurs, but I suppose it is just the nature of their work. After all, they are still cleaning up all the world's rubbish from 2 world wars so maybe they are a little fractious.
Good to talk to you. Fascinating stuff
hi mate,
Solid tungsten was not common in both UK or Germany a tungsten core was used, mainly due to the scarcity of tungsten compared ti steel. The development of kinetic shot is Armour Piercing, Armour piercing capped, Armour Piercing Capped, Ballistic Capped, AP - APC - APCBC. The Cap was a piece of steel that was designed to shatter face hardening on armour and to allow the AP shot to penetrate better. Due to the Cap being not very aerodynamic is why a Ballistic Cap was then added. 17 Pdr and 6 Pdr are both excellent examples of these types.
When I have Operated in France the work load is high but at least you are left to do the fun part of the job I think it's most likely the humour is lost in translation.
Hello to you
I find the story of armour defeat fascinating. I have been able to procure quite a lot of examples of Brit and German rounds, most of which I have since sent to my son in Australia.
My favourite rounds are Brit 6pr 7 cwt and I kept most of these for my selfish pleasure. Such a variety existed and I managed to find a very good stash in Holland via a very good friend. At last count I think I have 18 complete rounds but of course some of them are just colour variations. I am currently working on obtaining a 6pr 7cwt APCR...not so easy.
All the others, not so hard...AP, APC APCBC and APDS.but APCR is proving to be very elusive.
My collection includes US 57mm rounds as well.
17 pr are a bit harder but I have most of them, except HE, which I sent to Australia as well.....stupidly.
Keep up the good work. I agree totally with you...when you think you know it all there is generally something dreadful waiting just around the corner, and as you know, this sort of stuff bites big time.
Ok as you asked so nicely:
6 Pdr APCR
However the 6 Pdr APDS I believe is somewhat rare!
Hope they cheer you up!
R
Well, what can I say....amazing. Well done. Don't suppose you have 2 of them ???
Lovely to see one in the flesh at last.
I think I had 6 of the APDS at one stage which was ridiculous.
Brilliant, thanks for sharing.
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