Post-WWII Scottish Unit Headgear (UK and Commonwealth)

[Watchdog]

As I mentioned in post #93 here is a comparison of early and later Scots Guards pipers cap badges;



The current pipers badge differs from the later item shown above only in the much more modern appearance of stamping and finishing.

The Pipe Sergeants and Pipe Major both wear a slightly different design which, as is typical with pipers badges, are similar in physical appearance (quality and finish) to the style of officers badges (issued rather than privately purchased precious metal items)

Bearing in mind that pipers badges are authorised by the Army Dress Committee on the proviso that there is no cost to the Public Purse ie they are funded by the regiments themselves and are therefore regimental property they are "issued" to the end user.

Here are examples of the Pipe Sergeants and the Pipe Majors badge respectively;



They are both from hard metal, silver plated and frosted. They are multi piece construction with gold (probably Rhodium or similar) plated centres backed with green enamel discs.

They are not that common amongst collectors because obviously there are far fewer pipers than riflemen, far fewer Pipe Sgts than pipers and only one Pipe Major per regiment.

Scots Guards pipers wear the (navy) blue Glengarry cap with red toorie.

Regards

Mark

[Watchdog]

By definition the Royal Scots Fusiliers badge with a Queens Crown has to be a "post-war" item.

However, many do not realise because of the regiments incorporation into The RHF, that the ORs badge did exist in both brass and anodised aluminium versions which did exist concurrently immediately before the creation of RHF. The two badges are identical in all aspects except the material.
Because of the difference in material it is possible to tell them apart in most cases even black and white photographs from some distance;



Regards

Mark

[Reid10]

What I find interesting is the Witwatersrand glengarry does not have solid sidewalls, unlike the British glengarries I have. Another way in which the headgear worn by the South African Scottish regiments is/was just a little bit different.

I am still hoping to acquire the Kilmarnock bonnet and the khaki TOS worn by the regiment.

[Reid10]

By definition the Royal Scots Fusiliers badge with a Queens Crown has to be a "post-war" item.

However, many do not realise because of the regiments incorporation into The RHF, that the ORs badge did exist in both brass and anodised aluminium versions which did exist concurrently immediately before the creation of RHF. The two badges are identical in all aspects except the material.
Because of the difference in material it is possible to tell them apart in most cases even black and white photographs from some distance;



Regards

Mark

Mark, I am hoping to one day collect a RSF glengarry. (Or at least hold one) However, there seem to be quite a few RSF badges for sale (and a few glengarries), which given when the unit was amalgamated makes me suspicious of what is real and what has been faked.

[Reid10]

As I mentioned in post #93 here is a comparison of early and later Scots Guards pipers cap badges;



The current pipers badge differs from the later item shown above only in the much more modern appearance of stamping and finishing.

The Pipe Sergeants and Pipe Major both wear a slightly different design which, as is typical with pipers badges, are similar in physical appearance (quality and finish) to the style of officers badges (issued rather than privately purchased precious metal items)

Bearing in mind that pipers badges are authorised by the Army Dress Committee on the proviso that there is no cost to the Public Purse ie they are funded by the regiments themselves and are therefore regimental property they are "issued" to the end user.

Here are examples of the Pipe Sergeants and the Pipe Majors badge respectively;



They are both from hard metal, silver plated and frosted. They are multi piece construction with gold (probably Rhodium or similar) plated centres backed with green enamel discs.

They are not that common amongst collectors because obviously there are far fewer pipers than riflemen, far fewer Pipe Sgts than pipers and only one Pipe Major per regiment.

Scots Guards pipers wear the (navy) blue Glengarry cap with red toorie.

Regards

Mark

Thank you for posting more of your badges, Mark! The Scots Guards pipers and officer badges I think are the most attractive of all of the Scottish regimental cap badges being one of the few with enamel, though I think the 32 Signals Regiment piper and officer badges might be a close runner-up. I have only seen the 32 Signal officer badge for sale once and should have bought it when I had the chance. (See below)

[Watchdog]

Mark, I am hoping to one day collect a RSF glengarry. (Or at least hold one) However, there seem to be quite a few RHF badges for sale (and a few glengarries), which given when the unit was amalgamated makes me suspicious of what is real and what has been faked.

Hi Reid,

I am sure that RSF Glengarries are out there, most likely not haviveng moved far in retirement from Scotland!

As for RHF Glengarries I do not think that it should be too hard to obtain and faking is unlikely whilst a misrepresented civilian cap is easy to spot.

The RHF cap badge is not uncommon (I believe you have a couple?) and the red/white /blue diced cap was worn by all the Scots infantry regiments except the A&SH and the QOHLDRS right up to the inception of the RRS. I suppose the hard part might be finding a badge and cap that always wer together and actually worn by a member of RHF which of course only had the one regular battalion. I'll keep my eyes open for you.

Regards

Mark

[Reid10]

The South Africans retained the larger TOS after independance. This TOS seems similar in size to British TOS from the 1940s to the early 1970s (I will need to do some measurements). My theory is the manufacturers in South Africa continued to use the specifications current when South Africa became independent, while the British continued to decrease the size of their TOS over the next several years. Because SA used laces, the specifications were likely from before World War II.

This TOS is dated after the Border Wars because it does not use laces for size adjustment. South Africa continued to use laces up to the end of the Border War on their TOS and Balmorals, long after the British ceased doing so. I found this information on Transvaal Scottish - www.nutria.co.za . On the site a former TSR member posted his TOS that he wore during the Border Wars that uses laces (see picture below). He also posted his TOS next to a "current" TOS for the regiment, showing the differences in color and manufacture. I put "current" in parenthesis because the unit was renamed and the uniform changed in 2019. Unfortunately the picture was no longer in photo bucket, so all I could save were images with their logo.

Any updates or additional information from anyone who has a better understanding of the history of the SA regimental TOS would be very appreciated.

[Reid10]

Hi Reid,

I am sure that RSF Glengarries are out there, most likely not haviveng moved far in retirement from Scotland!

As for RHF Glengarries I do not think that it should be too hard to obtain and faking is unlikely whilst a misrepresented civilian cap is easy to spot.

The RHF cap badge is not uncommon (I believe you have a couple?) and the red/white /blue diced cap was worn by all the Scots infantry regiments except the A&SH and the QOHLDRS right up to the inception of the RRS. I suppose the hard part might be finding a badge and cap that always wer together and actually worn by a member of RHF which of course only had the one regular battalion. I'll keep my eyes open for you.

Regards

Mark

Mark,

As I did previously when I wrote "SG" instead of "RSDG" when talking about the Drummer Bonnet, I meant to write "RSF", not "RFH". I really do check my posts before I reply, but unfortunately miss things from time to time.

You are absolutely right, the RHF badge and glengarry is still a bit common, though the glengarries are getting harder and harder to find. From what I understand, this is partially because the veterans of these units are holding on to them because individual cap badges are no longer worn in the SCOTS regiment. They may have given their older one away, thinking they could always get another one.

I have been lucky enough to acquire TOS for the Queen's Own Highlanders and the Seaforth Highlanders. However, the glengarries for these two units and the Royal Scots Fusiliers have so far eluded me.

What irritates me is when I see a badge for any of these units on a glengarry that is marked after they were amalgamated. There is a glengarry on EBay right now that has a RSF badge like the ones you posted earlier on a glengarry marked 1963!

I do have one question: Do British soldiers really wear the Hobson brand berets? I have one badged to the para regiment, but it is older. I was not sure what you and your fellow soldiers thought about these berets. I know that Firmin made berets that were privately bought.

Cheers

Reid

[Watchdog]

I do have one question: Do British soldiers really wear the Hobson brand berets? I have one badged to the para regiment, but it is older. I was not sure what you and your fellow soldiers thought about these berets.
Reid

Hobsons have been a respected military tailor and outfitter for decades and I believe they still hold MOD contracts for mainly ceremonial items so I think it is at least plausible that some personnel (most likely officers) have and maybe still do prefer Hobson items (which do have that tactile, silky lining that seems to shout "I bought this, which means I am cool, it's not a common issue piece") over the issue berets. There may also be regimental or peer group proclivities or fashions that dictate the wearing of a particular brand.

However, there now seems little advantage to this as since the early 90s the issue beret has changed to a smaller crown leather banded type as opposed to the earlier silk banded "aircraft carrier flight deck" type that was universally loathed by the latter day professional soldiers and resulted in the popularity of the erstewhile "Victor" and DuBora private purchase items.

The Hobson type are not issued and I suppose the answer as to whether they have actually been worn by serving personnel is provenance. Sorry that isn't a definitive answer but it only takes one soldier and one beret to make the answer yes! If I were to generalise I would say no, not on any appreciable scale.

I have served in units where the RSM (Regimental Scary Monster) would have a fit if anybody wore an item that did not come from the shelves of "Man at Q&M" Whereas in some units the attitude towards style and pannache is rather more one of laissez faire as long as the result does not evoke images of John Wayne and is good for the appearance of the regiment

I'd much rather be able to say yes or no but as you will appreciate from you time in Scotland, where headress in the British Army is concerned it just isn't that simple

Regards

Mark

[Reid10]

Mark,

Your response was very helpful. I went back and looked at my para beret and it is actually a DuBora.
The Hobson beret I looked at has a cotton lining and ribbed fabric band. From what I understand, and what I see in pictures, this is not a popular style with soldiers, who seem to prefer the leather band. I think your “generalization” is accurate.

The catalyst for my question is that I have been looking for a beret from the Scottish and Northern Irish Yeomanry, officer and OR. I thought I found an officer beret for the unit, with the correct embroidered cap badge, but the beret is the Hobson I described. Not likely to be worn by an officer.

Initially the soldiers wore blue berets when the unit was created in 2015. Officers wore embroidered cap badges and OR a cloth one. Later the unit, which is affiliated with the RSDG, began wearing the light grey beret. The same cap badges were worn, until a little while ago when I noticed the OR had switched to a metal cap badge. The beret examples I have seen for the ORs are issued, which might be mandated by the RSM!





As I have said, in the U.S. we only have a few types of headgear and, other than a few specialized units, they are pretty uniform. That is why I collect British headgear and not U.S. Our headgear is not as interesting. Plus, I can go to the PX and get pretty much anything we wear.

If you ever run across any of the following, please let me know!

- SNIY Officer or OR Beret
• Argyll and Sutherland TOS
• London Scottish Glengarry
• Liverpool Scottish Glengarry or TOS (Post
• Royal Scot Fusiliers Glengarry
• Seaforth Highlanders Glengarry

Regards,

Reid