British Para Smock and Helmet (film props?)

[Rick W]

Smock should look like this ,
Really the OP bought ex movie props so what would he expect , Original WW2 gear , really ain't gonna happen .
Cheers Rick

Attachment 1365976

Attachment 1365977

[Anderson]

I can't comment on the authenticity of the smocks used in the movie, but they certainly were not like the one he has bought, as the movie still image show.

[Rick W]

Id been keen to know what the OP paid for them in the 1st place if he wants to share ?
Seeing he started this thread .
That might explain his anxiety after getting over excited on a good deal once he got it

[Rick W]

I do love Micheal Caine in any movie he has done ever

[Anderson]

I agree, and he was good in this one.

[ldr]

Thanks for the replies guys. Sorry for the delay.

Yes I bought them as props and wasn't expecting them to be real. My main concern was that they matched the ones used onscreen.

I've had more info about the helmet, which i dont have issues with being used in the film. This matches the screen grabs and photo, with the metal eagle.

'The helmet looks to me like an authentic Mk III type para helmet (made and worn from 1944 until well into the 1970's).
It has the correct webbing wih blackende parts and probably a BMB liner (check the liner for a faint size and manufacture date), correct head crown with horse hair in it. The shell is goob but obviously newly painted over and over and the polish insignia added which (as stated) should have been painted on.
Helmet net maybe good too.'

The helmet liner is BMB marked and appears to be dated 1944.

Smock
Known date labels:

A/78 - early-mid 1960s to 1979

A/78/CLO/32935/DC67 (1) – NBC gloves, packed Nov 1971
A/78/CLO/33893/DC69 (1) – 68 pattern smock, CW Son Ltd, 1971
A/78/CLO/38647/DC69 (1) – 68 pattern trousers, CW Son Ltd, 1972
A/78/CLO/38799/DC67 – respirator case, BHE Ltd, 1972
A/78/CLO/41990/CB(CT)2A – NBC gloves, Dipco, Dec 1973

So presuming the label in this jacket:
A/78/Clo/35752/DC69(2)

Is somewhere between 1971 and 1972?

The main thing is the smock camo and style is completely different to the smocks used in the film. I'm presuming the stunt man may own more smocks and has them mixed up? Will find out.

I've been told that Bertram and nathans either used real WW2 smocks or made the smocks especially for the film and supplied all the other costumes
I paid £750 for the lot.

Thanks for the help

[ldr]

My post was to get more information about the smock, era, style etc to get evidence that it didn't match the screen one, and it wasn't WW2.

So, I have the correct information when i go back to the auction house and explain the smock can't possibly have been used in the film (regardless of whether the stuntman says it was).

I was also interested to know whether the helmet was custom made for the film or they did use WW2 ones. I didn't buy these items in the hope they were WW2. I collect militaria and film props.

[Watchdog]

I agree, and he was good in this one.

For me "Zulu" was his best followed by "Harry Brown" and "The Italian Job" in that order

However, as to the topic;

That is very definately the 1959 patt smock used up until the DPM pattern circa 1980. I was issued exactly one like it aged 18yrs in 1976 (pictured below).

The helmet certainly has the late pattern chinstrap which again was issued with the HSAT until the lightweight helmet was introduced around the same time. I still have my old HSAT and it is identical to the wartime type but has no date stamp at all.

The insignia on the smock at the top of the thread are;

1. 'X' patch is the DZ patch of 10th (V) Bn Para regt.

2.Wings on upper right sleeve = Brit para wings but on this smock will most likely be post war.

3. 50 patch on right sleeeve is a non military (commemorative) patch for the 5oth anniversary jump at Arnhem.

Which is associated with;

4. Wings on left breast = Dutch para wings.

As long as this is not a "put together" it is of interest concerning the 50th anniversary.

Here is my smock which I originally kept as a souvenir and to my same debadged and wore in the garden before they became of interest!!!



Regards

Mark

[ldr]

Thanks Mark, what a very informative post.

Great to know what the various insignia are.

[ldr]

I've had a relpy from the stunt man who owned the gear.

'..."Mill House" in the village Battle Sequence gets hit by a shell from an american team firing a 3.5 Rocket Launcher and blows up with myself having to escape prior to everything collasping, ending up in the Village Pond, was then issued with another Smock to continue filming further scenes, these scenes/sequences were complested towards the end of the Film'

So sounds like his smock was ruined during filming and this 1970s smock was given to him for further filming. The 70s smock is still not seen in the film....maybe behind the scenes might show this. Or maybe the stunt guy is mistaken.

Anyway, looking through the pockets of the smock i found this scarf/face veil:



which matches the the ones used on screen. A nice little bonus.