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World War II ACE Captain Robert A. Karr jacket?

Article about: Dear Sirs. I recently encountered this jacket that according to the label inside the pocket once belonget to Captain Robert A. Carr from the 5th Fighter Squadron Regiment: 52d Fighter Group.

  1. #1
    Jan
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    Default World War II ACE Captain Robert A. Karr jacket?

    Dear Sirs. I recently encountered this jacket that according to the label inside the pocket once belonged 2nd Lieutanant (later Captain) Robert A. Karr 15th Air Force 5th Fighter Squadron Regiment: 52nd Fighter Group.

    I´m not at all familiar with these kind of uniforms and would very much appreciate your input when it comes to authenticity issues rgarding this item.

    Best,

    Jan
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture World War II ACE Captain Robert A. Karr jacket?   World War II ACE Captain Robert A. Karr jacket?  

    World War II ACE Captain Robert A. Karr jacket?   World War II ACE Captain Robert A. Karr jacket?  

    World War II ACE Captain Robert A. Karr jacket?  
    Last edited by Jan; 12-28-2020 at 11:09 AM. Reason: Spelling error

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  3. #3
    Jan
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    Hi guys,

    I´m thinking of putting this one up for sale and was wondering if you have any remarks on it and what I should write in the text accompanying the sales advert. I will sell it to the highest bidder so the starting price will be 0 euros but I don´t want to exagerate anything just sell it for what it really is.

    All help with what´s missing or is potentially wrong with the jacket etc. would be much appreciated!

    Best, Jan

  4. #4

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    Greetings Jan,,

    Happy Holiday's to you.

    The jacket is very nice.. Bullion made 15th Air Force patch is nice and with the name inside you have the potential to do some very good research (Or at least the next owner has the ability to research this properly).

    As a recommendation in your writeup I would describe the uniform as you found it, nothing added, nothing removed. You may go into detail about the owner of the uniform being an Ace as well as the squadron Robert Karr was assigned to. You have some information about a Silver Star he received and the Distinguished Flying Cross as well which you can add links to your write-up. The number in the coat on the tag #816117 is Karr's Officer's serial number, so that also adds to the research potential.

    It is missing his ribbons, wings and rank which I would also mention in your write up as not being with the uniform when it was in your possession.

    The sad truth and risk with these types of provenanced uniforms is that when you sell this "AS IS" with insignia missing now to someone, give it a few years and you may see this reappear with ribbons, rank, wings and the new owner now selling it as "COMPLETE Uniform" from WW2 and unsuspecting buyers will most likely spend a lot of money on a uniform that has been as we call it "Humped up"...

    Currently on a US Auction site is a signed photo of Karr in front of his P-51 Mustang. I believe the signature to be Karr's which was probably done at a post war reunion of some sort where Veterans would gather and for a small price you could purchase a reprinted wartime picture with the individuals "autograph"..

    Someone interested in the uniform jacket could add this to the grouping to make it more complete.

    P-51 MUSTANG ACE Robert Karr signed PHOTO BY PLANE - 6 Kills | eBay

    If I was not selling the majority of my uniform collection I would purchase this uniform and do proper research and possibly do a restoration on it (with the intent to fully disclose that I replaced insignia etc.), but I have neither the time or space to store it..

    Hope some of this information helps and good luck.. You shouldn't have any problems selling the jacket.

    Best regards and stay safe..

    Smitty

  5. #5
    Jan
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    Thank you so much Smitty, you have some very good points there and I´m extremely grateful for your kind answer.

    I think I will hold on to the jacket at least for a while longer and do some more research on it and possibly a museum class documenation of the jacket itself (in it´s present day condition) for the reasons you mentioned.

    I purchased the picture and added it to the "package".

    Best, Jan
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  6. #6

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    Greetings Jan,

    I am glad I could assist. It was very thoughtful of you to purchase the photo of Karr, and when you do decide to sell this jacket the photo will be a nice addition. (As a side note, keep the information from the Auction that you purchased the photo from to add to the write-up when you decide to sell, that way it will be clear to the next owner what was added to the grouping to make it more complete).

    As I mentioned before there are some people that only focus on monetary gain and they will trick, fool and deceive in order to make the most profit. It is sad to say that the military community of collectors has been infiltrated by these individuals for years, we obviously see this with reproduction Third Reich militaria but it has also crept into all other nations militaria as well.. With the abundance of military awards and decorations available on-line and at surplus shops here in the US, it is very common for scammers to pick up hoards of old WW2 era insignia and add them to an empty uniform jacket, find a fake serial number and write that information in SHARPIE in the uniform and then sell it as a provenanced piece to unsuspecting and in many cases gullible folks who will believe the sky is purple if you tell them.. This is why research and study is so very important in our hobbies that we take so much interest in today...

    It takes research and a very good eye to pick out uniforms that have been enhanced and humped up, some of the methods I will not mention here as I don't want to give any of the scammers any more ways to deceive but for someone who has been collecting for almost 50 years it has been somewhat of a past hobby to search out the scammers and ultimately call them out on their "creations". I can't tell you how many uniforms I have reported on Ebay which have been pulled.. But for every 10 pulled, 100 more replace them... So it is never ending in our hobby to do proper research and have the knowledge needed in order to prevent making very costly mistakes..

    Hope you enjoy the fast coming New Year and with that I wish you and your family good health, safety and a better 2021..

    Best regards,, stay safe..

    Smitty

  7. #7
    Jan
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    Hi Smitty,

    Thanks again. I have started documenting the jacket by photographing the areas were the missing ribbons, wings and rank insigna once where attached. At the same time I´m writing a list of other features that come along during the procedure.

    Wishing you and your family a Happy New Year regardless of the situation.

    Best, Jan

  8. #8
    Jan
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    Managed to track down the provenance a bit today when I received a photo of the grouping in which the jacket was sold in 2017. Sadly I have not been able to find out the sellers name (on Ebay) . The rather diverse grouping has since been sold to different collectors.

    Best, Jan
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture World War II ACE Captain Robert A. Karr jacket?  

  9. #9

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    Sadly the grouping has been split up.

  10. #10

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    Jan,,

    Happy New Year...

    Always sad to see these groupings split up, but you did well tracking down at least a photo that shows more of Karr's items... At least we know what other items were with the jacket...

    Various reasons come to mind for splitting a grouping up... Make more money selling pieces individually, the person who owned the items lacks space for uniforms, the former owner only collected insignia, hence the reason the uniform is stripped... so many different scenarios...

    Sadly though it does come down to lost provenance if the other items were not labeled, they are just examples of the type of clothing worn and equipment used...

    Best regards

    Smitty

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