Un known badge ID help please

[Watchdog]

All flying airmen initially got the aircrew. When you trained/became a gunner or another specialty you would be authorized to wear that wing. Transport crews would have worn the aircrew wings. If you look at airmen in training in the states, even the bomber crews you will see they are wearing Aircrew wings in their graduation photo's. That is an easy way to spot pre combat crew photo's.
I'm not an expert on these,but that is what I have seen so far.
I hope that answers your question Mark.

Semper Fi
Phil

Thanks Phil that is pretty much what I assumed but just never found it written down anywhere.

So, it would be a two stage process. First the training and qualification as basic aircrew followed by a further period of training and qualification in a specific skill / role

Regards

Mark

[AZPhil]

Yes Sir.
Here is an example of the Bomber Crew from the 384th BG B-17 "Dueces Wild" taken stateside prior to deploying to England.
Note they all are wearing the Aircrew wings.


Now like I mentioned I'm not an expert on these. I just collected several sets of wings to honor my Uncle's and a long with a Pilot from the 384thBG for their service. But I believe they would put the Gunner wings on once flying in a combat theater of operations. That is my understanding. I'll do some more digging when I get home to my reference books(Silver Wings,Pinks and Greens) to see if anything is written down that I can quote

Here is another interesting shot of wings worn on the garraison cap. Bottom row far right.





Semper Fi
Phil

[AZPhil]

Well that one didn't say much.
Pg. 97
"The Aerial Gunner Wing Badge To qualify as an aerial gunner, the airman had to graduate from a six week course in flexible gunnery. Navigator and bombardier cadets had to take this course also. The badge, which features a bullet with wings, was established 29 April 1943 and discontinued 26 July 1949."

Semper Fi
Phil

[Politefaun]

That's a great link Phil thanks

Like most of us here I have my main areas of interest but being a "full on" collector and enthusiast for all things encompassed by the umbrella term "militaria" I also have many "sub-sections" in my collection. One such sub-section is generally concerned with military forces not included in the main areas.

Anyway at one point I decided to gather a representative group of US items that interested me from the whole 20th Century. Part of this began with a USAAF pilots wing but then I figured I would gather enough for a bomber crew ie pilot, gunner, bombardier etc. But, guess what? "Mission Creep" came into it and I ended up with Supply pilot, Liaison pilot, Naval Aviator etc but I suppose that is what makes me a "Militaria Magpie"

One question I can't seem to find the answer to concerns the "Aircrew" wing. Who wore that and under what circumstances when there seems to be a specific wing for every aircrew speciality?

Don't mean to hi-jack the thread but as the original question at the top was "what is this?" my question seems to fit

Regards

Mark

Radio operators wore aircrew wings, but they could also wear the gunner wings (from what I've read this wasn't common though) as they were also trained to be gunners since the "g" model of B17 had a gun in the radio room.

[AZPhil]

OK I had to ask to get this answer because I didn't want to give bum scoop.
This came from a Vet's son.
His father first went to technical school(Radio's) , He was then sent to Gunnery school were he was promoted to Corporal and given his Gunner wings upon graduation and they were worn in the US. Then everyone was then sent to attend advanced crew training for specific bombers. This Vet was sent to B-17's. This Vet attended Gunnery school in October/November of 1944
When he arrived in England he was authorized to wear either Air Crew wings or Gunner wings and most EM chose to wear the Gunner wings.

The date of authorization for the Gunner wings was April 29th 1943.

Gunner Badge - Wikipedia

So the pictures I have found and the one I posted are possibly before the Gunner wings were authorized, Prior to that they wore the Aircrew wings.

I love learning stuff like this!!!

Semper Fi
Phil

[AZPhil]

Hello Stephen,
The B-17F also had the gun in the radioman's position.
This is B-17F from the 384th.



But you are correct that they could wear what they wanted.

Semper Fi
Phil

[AZPhil]

Ok here is another from the 384thBG 546th BS.. The Dietel Crew
This one is while in England.
Note that some are wearing the 8th Air Force patch and they have the combat blue patch behind there Air Crew wings.(Bottom row,1st and 3rd from the left)
This is dated between June and July of 1943. They were shot down and all KIA except Radio operator(Evaded) and the engineer(POW) on 28 July 1943.

So Air crew wings being worn during that time.



This has defiantly turned into a learning experience
Semper Fi
Phil

[Watchdog]

This has defiantly turned into a learning experience
Semper Fi
Phil

You got that right

A simple question that I nearly didn't ask because I sort of felt that a collector of as many years as me (albeit I don't specialise in this area) really ought to have known (it has bugged me for quite a while) turned into the kind of exchange that makes this forum just the best!

The forum format (the most user friendly) provides the skeleton but it is the membership that puts the great, juicy meat on those bones

Thanks guys.

Regards

Mark
PS. I am aware of that book Phil but never got round to adding it to my bookshelf because of cost versus neccesity for my collecting habits though I think I should reconsider. It is expensive in UK and 2nd hand copies from the US are made equally so by prohibitive postal costs!
I'll keep looking!