1805 British Naval Sword varient

[tokashikibob]

Gents, I just picked this up yesterday out in sticks here in N.C. After spending a bit of time looking at various examples of 1805 swords, this Salter Cutlery has a basket guard while all the others do not have this feature. Is this a 1805 with just a different option?

Best regards,
Bob

[Anderson]

No, it's not a Pattern 1805 which had a straight blade and different hilt, but a Pattern 1827.The P1822 had the hinged portion of hilt that was dropped in 1827. Confusing as the later hilts were sometimes updated in earlier P1822 blades after 1827. But this is a quality parade sword by John Salter, he certainly was well connected, also to Lord Nelson and I've seen a East India Company sword that is similar. Salter was very decorative, used a lot of brass work and gilt and the ivory grip confirms this is a parade sword for a senior Royal Navy officer.
Date? Salter's address is the clue. He had is business at the Strand in London between 1801-31, but at number 73 Strand from 1825-31. So the sword we could say with some confidence was made during the reign of King William IV and most likely a P1827.

[Ubique]

Well, I thought your reply deserved a like.

Oz.

[Frogprince]

No, it's not a Pattern 1805 which had a straight blade and different hilt, but a Pattern 1827.The P1822 had the hinged portion of hilt that was dropped in 1827. Confusing as the later hilts were sometimes updated in earlier P1822 blades after 1827. But this is a quality parade sword by John Salter, he certainly was well connected, also to Lord Nelson and I've seen a East India Company sword that is similar. Salter was very decorative, used a lot of brass work and gilt and the ivory grip confirms this is a parade sword for a senior Royal Navy officer.
Date? Salter's address is the clue. He had is business at the Strand in London between 1801-31, but at number 73 Strand from 1825-31. So the sword we could say with some confidence was made during the reign of King William IV and most likely a P1827.

A good informative post by Anderson as it regards this very nice Naval sword that also has a 'pipe' back blade which helps date it, as does the type of blade decoration. Some of these swords while certainly decorative, are also fairly robust and could very easily have been carried on board ships for a more practical purpose. In a time where cutlasses were standard on ships as still a part of Naval warfare - in the age of "iron men and wooden ships". Whereas the "Gala" or smaller dress versions were probably used off duty, at social functions, etc. As seen with other types like some of those for the British Army which transitioned to the solid type guards later on. Best Regards, Fred

[Anderson]

I agree Fred, the blade certainly is campaign ready, though other parts are less durable as you would expect from a parade sword. This was a period when Britain didn't have a standard "dress" version of the military swords. So it was left to individual officers to buy a fancy gilt version for parade and a second more robust all steel (including steel scabbard) campaign version to take to war. You see this also with the Scottish Baskethilt swords. Also the P1796 Light Calvary Sabre, you will see examples with that frighteningly vicious blade joined to a brass hilt with ivory grips, etching, gilt, leather scabbard. Makers like Salter specialized in this work and quite likely bought the blades from other large Cutler firms.

[Frogprince]

I agree Fred, the blade certainly is campaign ready, though other parts are less durable as you would expect from a parade sword. This was a period when Britain didn't have a standard "dress" version of the military swords. So it was left to individual officers to buy a fancy gilt version for parade and a second more robust all steel (including steel scabbard) campaign version to take to war. You see this also with the Scottish Baskethilt swords. Also the P1796 Light Calvary Sabre, you will see examples with that frighteningly vicious blade joined to a brass hilt with ivory grips, etching, gilt, leather scabbard. Makers like Salter specialized in this work and quite likely bought the blades from other large Cutler firms.

Anderson, I understand the points being made , having a fondness especially for some of the 18th/19th century swords that were made to be actually used. That said, there are some well decorated full size swords that I think show that some probably higher ranking officers carried them in the field. Preferring to use in hand examinations for size, weight, length and the "feel" of a sword along with the visible signs of use as compared to the EM types. In my own experience including those from Germany, Osborn, Gill, etc. and of course Wilkinson a little later on. Including the British 1803 all in brass including the scabbard, with the same to be said for an unnumbered Crimean era all brass Infantry Officer's sword from Wilkinson that if anything is more robust than average also having a sharpened blade. With my point really being that I look at them on a case by case basis, because I know that some of those in the Yeomanry/Volunteer formations also ordered swords to suit their own tastes. And it can take quite a while sometimes to decide where the best fit might be. Best Regards, Fred