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Occupied Berlin, 1945-1990 Allied Forces (US, British, French, Soviet)

Article about: I wanted to start a thread about the Occupying Forces in the City of Berlin from 1945 up to reunification in the 1990s. There are some members here who served in the Occupied City, myself in

  1. #81

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    Yes "Die Luftbruecke" was a very tense time for sure and one firmly set in the history of the city. I actually met many Berliners who had fond childhood memories of the "Candy Bombers".
    The really relevant point was however, the Allied determination not to give in to Soviet intimidation and pressure. In the end there was only so much "middle finger" the Sovs could take before completely losing face (we all hate that but they just could not bear it) and quietly backing down as if they had "proved a point".

    A long lasting knock-on effect of the situation was the Allied resolve that there would never be a repeat of such near starvation if another "siege" were imposed. In the British Sector and I believe the French and US too huge stock piles of rations and fuel were established that were designed to keep the whole city from starving over several months if the need arose.
    Of course the Soviets knew this (they were supposed to) which made another blockade very unattractive.
    However, such stocks have to be rotated which in the British Sector had the happy consequence of FRIS, The Family Ration Issue Scheme. This allowed the rotating stocks to be sold on a ration basis at cheaper than retail prices to all the service families (a great deal was used in cookhouses / messes for single personnel but no way could they eat it all!!). Each married quarter had a ration book which contained huge shopping lists and two aluminium "FRIS Bins". Orders were placed twice weekly in advance for delivery on the same day of the following week. The order was delivered in one FRIS Bin and the empty one which was left on the doorstep containg the next "shopping list" was taken away for use with the next delivery. At the end of each month the FRIS bill was deducted from the soldiers salary. The scheme covered canned and fresh meat, dairy, baked, frozen goods, fruit and veg as well as various grocery items.
    It was fantastic. One thing I remember particulary is big 1kg tins of ground coffee with a simple plain yellow lable from a local Berlin supplier which I am sure was called Otto Boenicke. My sincere thanks go out to the Group of Soviet Forces Germany for such a great perk. Thanks guys we really enjoyed it. I only hope you enjoyed your tinned pork fat and pickled apples as much

    Regards

    Mark
    PS this was of course on top of the Fuel, tobacco and spirits "ration" which wasn't a ration as to how much you could get but an allowance as to how much you could buy at duty free prices which in most cases was about half of the retail price. If you were that needy you could still buy more at full price.
    Last edited by Watchdog; 11-06-2020 at 09:57 PM. Reason: PS
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  2. #82

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    Quote by HARRY THE MOLE View Post
    Linienstrasse not far from Dortmund railway station. It was a long street of terraced houses where the ladies of the night (and day) plied their wares. Steve
    As you know Steve, I also served in Dortmund where the Federal laws were much different than in Berlin (That's a whole different tale!) and I remember "The Street" very well. Not I hasten to add for the reasons some might immediately assume!
    Quite an interesting place with the "House of Pain" at one end, all dark and purple and black

    It was as I recall not far from the wartime Gestapo building which somewhat bizzarely stood alone in an area that had benefitted from the services of the Second Allied Airforces earth moving service some years earlier

    Linien strasse was, for those unaware, a government licensed and monitored "Sperrbezirk" (typical German euphemism ) and was in my patrol area along with the Norpol pub (very "exclusive" venue that one, flick knives were De Rigeur!) If ever there was bother "Auf der Strasse" with local squaddies our German Police colleagues were more than happy for us to assist. The thing was however, that if there was an accusation of a criminal nature there would be a Strafanziege from the German side and we would interview under caution (like the Miranda thing in the US) some of which interviews were absolutely "cringeworthy" but that really is another topic.

    Regards

    Mark
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  3. #83

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    Someday I hope to go back to Berlin to see what it looks like now..

    Of course most of the areas I remember are now gone or have been repurposed since the forces departed but I would like to see if I could still get around the city streets by memory..

    We also had several "houses" that were I imagine quite often frequented by our troops.. What interaction with the "working ladies" I recalled was that they usually stayed away from US Soldier's for whatever reason, but I dated a US girl who was a technician at the US Army Hospital for a while and then I dated an East German girl before the Wall came down as we were permitted to go on pass into East Berlin... She worked at a restaurant at Alexander Platz.. Cooked my meal right at my table on a small stove.. Was quite impressive..

    Smitty

  4. #84

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    Quote by Rakkasan187 View Post
    Someday I hope to go back to Berlin to see what it looks like now..

    Of course most of the areas I remember are now gone or have been repurposed since the forces departed but I would like to see if I could still get around the city streets by memory..

    We also had several "houses" that were I imagine quite often frequented by our troops.. What interaction with the "working ladies" I recalled was that they usually stayed away from US Soldier's for whatever reason, but I dated a US girl who was a technician at the US Army Hospital for a while and then I dated an East German girl before the Wall came down as we were permitted to go on pass into East Berlin... She worked at a restaurant at Alexander Platz.. Cooked my meal right at my table on a small stove.. Was quite impressive..

    Smitty
    We too used to visit E.Berlin or should I say The Soviet Sector? We often used to have mess functions in the restaurants which meant that the service pers would all be in mess dress and the ladies in evening wear which really made the East Berliners gawp as if we were alien beings and they must have seen this many times but never seemed to get over it

    The two restaurants of choice were The Moskau and the Goldener Gans. The champagne cocktails looked just like anti-freeze but were popular!
    I recall one evening at The Moskau at the end of a dinner (what would be the cheese and port time but there was no cheese or port ) there was a house musician with a Balalaika who came to play for us (I think he had chosen his target from the clientele present) and we passed the bread basket around the table filling it up with our surplus DDR marks. When handed it his eyes nearly popped out of his head and he began to play again with renewed gusto. Poor bugger didn't realise that the convention as far as we were concerned was to take the money and "sod off". We just had to endure his "gratittude"

    I went back a couple of times after the wall came down which was a huge disappointment ( I was then stationed between Hanover and Hamburg in a delightful place called Fallingbostel or as we called it "F'ing B"). By then Berlin was the worlds biggest building site and it was flooded with east european grafters trying to sell all kinds of crap. Even raw meat off tarpaulins on the floor. The Federal German Zoll and Polizei were going nuts!
    Perhaps as the saying goes, you should never go back (it won't be as you recall).

    Regards

    Mark
    Last edited by Watchdog; 11-06-2020 at 11:29 PM. Reason: Typo
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  5. #85

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    A few years ago I also went back to Berlin. You are right, the city is no longer like it was during the Cold War.
    The wall is gone, no more passport checks, no allied occupation forces, even the smell of Lignite has disappeared.
    The city has been refurbished and has become a city like all other German cities with plenty to do and to experience.
    Today you have to look for remnants of the Cold War, but if you search carefully, they are sure to be found.

    Occupied Berlin, 1945-1990 Allied Forces (US, British, French, Soviet)

    And what could be more fun than photographing these objects with an analogue SLR camera.
    An East German-made SLR camera, a Praktica. I hope you enjoy the pictures.

    Occupied Berlin, 1945-1990 Allied Forces (US, British, French, Soviet)

    Flags of the Allied occupation forces (and also a NATO flag) at Haus am Checkpoint Charlie, Friedrichstrasse.

    Occupied Berlin, 1945-1990 Allied Forces (US, British, French, Soviet)

    Coat of arms of the GDR. I think it comes from a former GDR border crossing.
    It also decorates the facade of Haus am Checkpoint Charlie.

    Occupied Berlin, 1945-1990 Allied Forces (US, British, French, Soviet)

    A lonely Trabant in the Glaschkestrasse. In my opinion they are becoming
    increasingly rare in the Berlin traffic scene.

    Occupied Berlin, 1945-1990 Allied Forces (US, British, French, Soviet)

    At the back of the Stasi museum, in the Magdalenenstrasse,
    I photographed an East German-made sewer cover.

    Occupied Berlin, 1945-1990 Allied Forces (US, British, French, Soviet)

    Haus 22 of the Forschungs- und Gedenkstätte Normannenstrasse (Stasi Museum).

    Occupied Berlin, 1945-1990 Allied Forces (US, British, French, Soviet)

    Remains of the Berlin Wall at the Gedenkstätte Berliner Mauer, Bernauer Strasse.

    Occupied Berlin, 1945-1990 Allied Forces (US, British, French, Soviet)

    Close-up.

    Occupied Berlin, 1945-1990 Allied Forces (US, British, French, Soviet)

    Close-up.

  6. #86

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    Beautiful photos.. I sure miss those days...

    Smitty

  7. #87

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    One of the methods of travel from West Berlin to West Germany by US Soldiers and dependents was the US Army Duty Train. The Duty train left Berlin at nighttime as part of the agreement with the Soviet and East German forces. This train travelled from West Berlin through East Germany and then arrived at Frankfurt Germany in the West the following morning. In order to travel on the Duty train, one had to have Flag Orders which were signed by the US Commander of Berlin or USCOB and were verified by Soviet Officials once in East Germany. The Soviet's would stamp and sign the documents and they would be returned to the individuals the next morning in Frankfurt. The process would be the same when returning to Berlin. In addition to the FLAG ORDERS each person was issued a Train ticket, a berthing number and a car number. Each of the train cars had rooms that would hold 4 occupants and they also had 4 pull down bunk beds. A German civilian would have a drink and food cart where you could purchase coffee, tea, marble cake and other small items. When travelling through East Germany we were not permitted to have the window shades open and picture taking was forbidden. Right outside of Potsdam East Germany was a large Soviet and East German military base which had numerous tanks and other vehicles that were pre-positioned to attack West Berlin in the event of hostilities. One of the reasons we left Berlin at nightfall was in order for us not to see the types of tanks and vehicles that were in the motor parks.

    I have attached pictures of the Train Commander Brassard which would have been worn by a member of the Military Train Detachment, 287th Military Police Company (Berlin Brigade). The train was manned by Military Police for protection and processing through East Germany.

    A copy of my flag orders, train ticket with berthing and car information is also included.. This particular ticket was a return ticket from Frankfurt to Berlin after I spent sometime in West Germany at a school.

    Smitty
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Occupied Berlin, 1945-1990 Allied Forces (US, British, French, Soviet)   Occupied Berlin, 1945-1990 Allied Forces (US, British, French, Soviet)  

    Occupied Berlin, 1945-1990 Allied Forces (US, British, French, Soviet)   Occupied Berlin, 1945-1990 Allied Forces (US, British, French, Soviet)  

    Attached Images Attached Images Occupied Berlin, 1945-1990 Allied Forces (US, British, French, Soviet) 

  8. #88

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    How about some R n R....golf cart tag ~1970…from my dads clubs
    Occupied Berlin, 1945-1990 Allied Forces (US, British, French, Soviet)Occupied Berlin, 1945-1990 Allied Forces (US, British, French, Soviet)
    "Youth would be an ideal state if it came a little later in life" - Herbert Henry Asqulth

  9. #89

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    KatManDude,,

    Excellent example...

    These small but significant items are very interesting and indicative of the Occupying Powers in Berlin..

    I personally didn't know these existed, although I was aware of the Golf Club,, never went though...

    Thank you for sharing

    Smitty

  10. #90

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    [QUOTE=Rakkasan187;2125765]One of the methods of travel from West Berlin to West Germany by US Soldiers and dependents was the US Army Duty Train. Smitty[QUOTE]

    Yes, the military trains were really far more significant than most people realised.

    The US Forces ran two, one to Frankfurt and one to Bremerhaven to serve both the US Zone of Germany and the Port detachments on the Northern coast which were actually at the top of the British Zone. They both travelled overnight as I recall. I travelled on the route to Bremehaven when I went to meet family off the ferry at Hamburg before driving back to Berlin. The train dropped me in the very salubrious bahnhof area of town where I enjoyed about three hours hanging around for my connection to Hamburg and it was winter!!

    The French operated one train from Berlin-Tegel to I think Strasbourg crossing the West German border at Mulhouse. It was an overnighter too but I don't know much about that.

    The British train ran during the day, morning out / evening back, from Berlin-Charlottenburg to Braunschweig.

    The timetabling was officially arranged in order to meet connections to onward journeys but I alway figured it had more to do with using the whole 24 hour clock so as the Soviets could never say "Well you don't use it during the night so there is clearly no need for us to staff the checkpoints", we would always try to avoid allowing them to perceive precedents!

    The Flag Order shown by Smitty is virtually identical to the British and French items but for the Flag symbol and the unit stamps.

    The British ones were known as Berlin Travel Documents (BTD) used both on the road and railway corridors. BTD/A was for Helmstedt to Berlin, BTD/B was Berlin to Helmstedt and BTD/C was British Sector to Soviet Sector via Checkpoint Charlie.

    The British Military Train aka "The Berliner" ran as I say during the day and was very much like a luxury Pullman service of years past. In the dining car breakfast and lunch were served on the way out and dinner on the return. There were even several "Berliner" wines with the Royal Corps of Transport cap badge and special Berliner logo. It was fantastic and non "duty" passengers (they tended to outnumber duty passengers) who were just travelling on a day trip to Braunschweig were charged the princely sum of DM10. Think about that, three restaurant style meals with silver service for the price of Bratwurst mit pommes and a beer

    It was not unusual for units to hold mess functions on the train. A day shopping etc in Braunschweig then back to the train and change into mess kit (evening wear for the ladies) then pre-dinner drinks, regimental dinner and the time honoured tradition of "Port at Potsdam" when the train was processed through the Soviet checkpoint on re-entry to Berlin.

    It was fantastic a real perk of being stationed in Berlin.

    I always thought that the "Berliner" was deliberate statement making and a demonstration of the fact that Soviet obstruction was not having the desired result of deterring the "decadent Westerners"

    As, I think, all three trains crossed the Inner German Border at the Marienborn / Helmstedt checkpoint the large number of parked armoured vehicles tha Smitty refers to were I believe at the NVA repair workshops at Kirchmoser where the trains would stop in sidings whilst the engines were changed from a DDR unit to a W.German DBB one.

    There were hundreds of T55 mostly all packed like sardines very close to the fence and easy to see. The idea was I imagine to strike fear into the hearts of those same decadent Westerners at the sight of Warsaw Pact might but to anyone who knew anything about military armoured vehicles they were clearly all unserviceable probably even scrappers. They were dirty, rusty with bits missing and all with main armament barrels pointing up and collecting rainwater. Kind of a "smoke and mirrors trick" without the smole Of course, passing there in the dark all you would discern was rows and rows of tanks. It was just us Brits who should have been too full of beer and wine to make the distinction right? The truth is that the Allied Intel bods just yawned

    Sadly I don't have any pics as cameras were strongly forbidden so as not to give the Sovs any chance to make a fuss!

    I did find a couple of pics online to give an idea and as the British interpreters were all attached to my unit from other regiments the one shown saluting the Soviet officer on the station platform (Marienborn) is a personal friend of mine as are the guys in mess kit enjoying a glass of port (am I in the pic? I can neither confirm or deny that)

    As the saying goes "The bad old days weren't always bad"

    Regards

    MarkOccupied Berlin, 1945-1990 Allied Forces (US, British, French, Soviet)Occupied Berlin, 1945-1990 Allied Forces (US, British, French, Soviet)Occupied Berlin, 1945-1990 Allied Forces (US, British, French, Soviet)Occupied Berlin, 1945-1990 Allied Forces (US, British, French, Soviet)
    Last edited by Watchdog; 12-10-2020 at 09:24 AM. Reason: Typo
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

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