Early 80's fake SS Panzer Officer Visor Cap

[DClan]

The gentleman I was negotiating with says he has owned this cap and another since 1982. I am reasonably sure that it is a fake. I know the Eagle is, as it is a pigeon head marked M1/40. i am 90% sure the skull is a fake as well. While I was denied permission to remove it, it just doesn't look right ( especially the overdone plate line - much fatter, deeper, and continuous than the ones I have been told are valid ). The cap itself I am less sure of. The Sonderklasse diamond is celluloid, the sweatband is marked " Erel Stirnschutz ", and that is as far as I can go. Opinions from those more knowledgeable than I would be appreciated.

[Sensei]

Can't comment on the cap itself, but you were right about the insignia. Both are poor fakes.

[Ullergaard]

Hello.. Save the money!!
Fake cap, fake insignia.

[CBH]

Service piped SS caps are fake 90% of the time.
You’ll never find a real one cheap.

[ErWeSa]

Agree with the opinons above:
The sweat shield isn't celluloid but plastic. The centerband looks dark green (could be the lighting) instead of black and furthermore it isn't velvet which it shoud be for an offierc's cap as it has silvery cap cords and not the leather chin strap. The visor doesn't diplay the cross-hatch pattern, the sweatband isn't the ErEl type the imprint on it/the print under the sweatshield makes believe (check the original Erels here on the forum), etc., etc., etc. The lining makes it a Janke for me (+ the way the sweatband is sewn in).

[TWS]

Nothing good there.

[DClan]

My suspicions confirmed. Thank you all for your input. As always, I come away with more knowledge than I entered with.

[DClan]

ErWeSa, maybe you can confirm something for me. I have perused as many photos of known originals as I could find of the Erel visor caps. Your comment of being bothered by how the sweatband was sewn in has me wondering...did most or all of the sweatbands for these visor caps get double sewn at the front - a second reinforcing stitch approximately 3 to 7mm or so above the visor stitch ( as in the attached pics ). Also, did all the visors sport a crosshatched pattern on the interior?

[ErWeSa]

Hi DClan,
there were several different ways to sew in a sweatband, the simplest of which might be to sew a stripe of leather/ersatz- or patent-leather into the cap, bend this and there you are (ErEl used this method as well in the early/very late caps).
In your picture we see the ErEl patent sweatband - meant to eliminate/ease forehead pressure and to grant ventilation (there should be a ventilation hole just behind the cockade of the cap in the cap band - therefore the perforations in the leather. A very similar method was used by Clemens Wagner BTW in his high-class caps at a given period. The basis of these sweatbands is a stripe of oilcloth, folded around a thin rattan (which often protuded where the ends join so that it can be seen). The actual stripe of leather then is sewn with a zig-zag stitch to this base and the whole composite is sewn to the cap (you can see the stitches in the second of your photos, they are exactly between the base and the leather). The art was to sew this in in exactly this small space on both sides of the cap (the seam on the outside of the centerband should be exactly in the seam of the piping).
Janke just imitates this method - there is no felt in the area of the forehead, the leather is different, the zig-zag stitches are different, there is no ventilation eyelet etc. etc....

Peküro is known for sweatbands sewn to a stripe of velvet which then was sewn in and bent.

Other cap makers had other patents/methods. If you continue looking through the forum you will come across many of these.

[DClan]

Wow, thank you for your detailed response. I very much appreciate your taking the time and sharing your knowledge.