SS Pioneer visor cap … fake or legit ?

[SilverVeteran]

I found this pioneer visor cap in a very good condition.It obviously is tailor made and differs in some details from the serial manufactured ones. However, some questions and worries arose from the insignia.I couldn’t find a match for them from Andrew Reznik’s excellent books but the controversial Assman unmarked eagle could be a match here,link below.

I haven’t dared to remove the insignia to see the stamps but I managed to turn their edges a bit and the eagle has three square brass pins with round insertion and the skull two square brass pins.
I was left wondering about its authenticity. Can you guys give me some insight and help me with this matter.
So the big question is…fake or legit?

[ErWeSa]

It's a very pleasant shape, yet, I'm sorry to say, a repro. I can't say anything to the insignia about which I don't know a thing.

[stonemint]

I agree with Wolfgang--high-end repro (and ditto on the insignia).

[Dos]

Skull insignia is fake. Probably has the SS - 360/42 RZM marking on the back or something similar combined with runes. SS markings are not found on original skulls. I don't know enough about eagles, but it does not look good either. These gentlemen above posses a lot of knowledge on visors and other headwear. Take their assessment and opinion serious!

[SilverVeteran]

Thank you for your replies. Can You give me any spesific details what reveals this is a repro cap ?

[ErWeSa]

1. the shape - nice but not period for this kind of cap
2. sweatband
3. visor/peak (reverse + obverse)
4. lining (material and plessier as F.-B. so rightfully called it)
5. "bowels" of the cap (try to have a look - is the stuffing made of waste cotton [greyish] or white [plastic] material?
6. velvet of the centerband
7. the way and the place where the ring of the grey fabric at the bottom of the cap joins
8. things I can't see - how is the lining attached? what is the centerband-stiffener made of?
9. reverse of the sweatband - any triple serial numbers visible?
10. logic - how many of these have existed and how many of those have survived?
and some other items but I don't want to give away everything - the fakers read these threads also!

[Anderson]

I'm wondering what the OP paid for it and why he didn't post it here first for a review.

[SilverVeteran]

No worries, it was bought as an open deal. No money has yet changed the owner. Too bad this turned to be fake.

[stonemint]

SScollector on the other forum had this to say about the insignia:

"Both, the eagle and the skull are absolutely 360 style reproductions. Due to the fact that we can see that the eagle has a disc where the prong is soldered on, these are the later, second generation casted variants and are probably not made of aluminum like the earlier die struck variants. These appear to be silver painted and are probably made of brass or a similar alloy and would be much heavier than the aluminum variants. Lastly, because these are second gen, they could be marked with any one of several bogus codes including the original "360" and "380" codes. The fakers got crazy with the markings on the later ones."