Did earlywar british planes use besa machine guns?

[Phendriks82]

Hello today someone gave me a relic from the IJsselmeer. I have almost identified it as a besa british machine gun... the former owner told me ir was from a british plane. However since i now know it might likely be a besa gun (which according to google were used in british tanks) , is it actually from a plane? What is a tank machine gun doing on.the bottom of a former sea??

[Grimebox]

I don’t believe that they were used in aircraft. It was not uncommon for guns and munitions to be dumped in the sea both officially and unofficially by the military, but given where you say it was recovered from I wonder if it was dumped after the war by someone who shouldn’t have had it!
My father was in the Royal Navy in the 50’s / 60’s and told me about dumping crated Vickers machine guns (amongst others) in the Irish Sea.

[vegetius]

Not to my knowledge. .303 inch was the standard Air Ministry calibre for Medium Machine Guns, (MMG) so I doubt it. I do remember in the 80's having two BESA's that were DP's in the armoury, god only knows why probably the British soldiers standard, "it might come in useful" excuse!

As for a lone MG found there, it is most likely a 'get rid of that over the side' embarrassment. Water of what ever depth has always been used as an out of sight out of need to explain option for disposal.

R

[Adrian Stevenson]

I would agree with the dumped option. Certainly not from an aircraft.

[AlanD]

Some 15mm Besa guns in pairs were fitted experimentally, to bombers.

I think there is one aircraft with this on display in the RAF Museum London.

Regards

Alan

[Teck 147]

Some 15mm Besa guns in pairs were fitted experimentally, to bombers.

I think there is one aircraft with this on display in the RAF Museum London.

Regards

Alan

True. The 15mm autocannon did find limited use in aircraft. But although it isn't in the original question we're all assuming it's a dumped (8mm Mauser) besa MMG that he's got... The 15mm was a right Monster of a gun in comparison

[vegetius]

True. The 15mm autocannon did find limited use in aircraft. But although it isn't in the original question we're all assuming it's a dumped (8mm Mauser) besa MMG that he's got... The 15mm was a right Monster of a gun in comparison

Spot on kid. About 75 Kg or so, the one fitted to the Humber AC but it was fed by 25 Rd belts. I wonder if they were extendable as they are not disintegrating link. For an aircraft you would need considerably more than 25 Rds to make it useful I would imagine.

[Teck 147]

Spot on kid. About 75 Kg or so, the one fitted to the Humber AC but it was fed by 25 Rd belts. I wonder if they were extendable as they are not disintegrating link. For an aircraft you would need considerably more than 25 Rds to make it useful I would imagine.

Gee. Thanks. I think.
I know you are borderline O.A.P.
Still, I didn't realise you're a Bogart fan.

I'm not aware of disintegrating link for the 15 x 104mm and the 25rnd Steel belts had a long tongue with a wire loop to simplify loading.
Even the FlaMG 39(t) and 490(j) versions only had about 40rnds per belt

[vegetius]

Teck,

Yep, even 40 Rds is insufficient. I can only assume there may be a different configuration made for the Air Ministry. Next time I have the ordnance Board Proceedings out I'll have a look, if authorised as a modification it must have been passed by them.

R

P.S. How's your 155mm?

[Teck 147]

P.S. How's your 155mm?

https://youtu.be/EC3D5ImuMRY

Not sure why they suddenly think that two treasure hunters equipt with Metal detector and Shovel had an excavator on someone elses field but hey what do I care