Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse Floch?

[Martin3]

About Johannes Floch:

I heard from collectors when they confronted him with his fakes spoiling the community, he said he never meant to fool the collectors' community with his reproductions. That he just intended these for the veteran market and sold his stuff for very reasonable prices. And that he turned out to be a very nice and generous man, handing out copies of his reproductions to collectors for study purposes. A story like this can be found at WAF. Obviously clearing himself and shifting the blame to fellow collectors, selling his fakes for genuine prices.

But what is truth? I hope the collectors concerned file the stories, well documented with the clear facts at the known forums because as it happens, stories grow more and more fantastic and vague throughout the years.
The story about the original dies - you won't find one maker with the same cores as the Floch fakes. The frames are very distinct and do not meet one of the known and accepted originals. Reworked original dies? Worn out dies? Maybe... But the overall flat looks of the Flock crosses suggest a newly made design, I think.
There happened a lot in Austria with old wartime stocks, that is for sure. And when they ran out of stocks, newly made parts slipped in.
It goes without saying a forum concentrates on original items. But the complete and honest story about all the Austrian fakes, I would be very, very interested!

Maybe I missed a few facts and posts throughout the year, then please point me to the threads! I love reading all the conspiracy theories about the 'early' fakes!

[Martin3]

Coincedentally I stumbled on a thread at the WAF about Floch, maybe an interesting read for you, Grant:

Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

Citing member TGN:
"Johannes Floch was an interesting fellow. He came to the US as a student and was amazed by the interest and value in Nazi items. Being from Austria, he knew there were tons on Nazi items available in his home country. He got the capitalist bug, and when he went back to Austria, he purchased all the military items he could find. He also went to factories to buy up any old remaining stocks of items, especially medals, badges and pins. He brought these back to the US, went to shows, and made a tidy profit selling these. Problem was, he eventually ran out of original items to sell. He went back to those manufacturers and commissioned them to make more items using original dies if possible, or using totally new dies. He continued his business using these new nade items, and expanded into all kinds of items, including newly made uniforms and head gear. He also sold original items when he could find them. I think he made a fortune on selling Nazi items, which was a far cry from his original intentions on studying in the US. He was always a very likeable fellow, which helped many of us on getting "Floched". Don't know what happened to him. Is he still around?"

Enjoy your day,
Martin

[Aussie guy]

Coincedentally I stumbled on a thread at the WAF about Floch, maybe an interesting read for you, Grant:

Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

Citing member TGN:
"Johannes Floch was an interesting fellow. He came to the US as a student and was amazed by the interest and value in Nazi items. Being from Austria, he knew there were tons on Nazi items available in his home country. He got the capitalist bug, and when he went back to Austria, he purchased all the military items he could find. He also went to factories to buy up any old remaining stocks of items, especially medals, badges and pins. He brought these back to the US, went to shows, and made a tidy profit selling these. Problem was, he eventually ran out of original items to sell. He went back to those manufacturers and commissioned them to make more items using original dies if possible, or using totally new dies. He continued his business using these new nade items, and expanded into all kinds of items, including newly made uniforms and head gear. He also sold original items when he could find them. I think he made a fortune on selling Nazi items, which was a far cry from his original intentions on studying in the US. He was always a very likeable fellow, which helped many of us on getting "Floched". Don't know what happened to him. Is he still around?"

Enjoy your day,
Martin

Thank you very much Martin the information is truly appreciated.

Kind regards,

Grant

[TWS]

About Johannes Floch:

I heard from collectors when they confronted him with his fakes spoiling the community, he said he never meant to fool the collectors' community with his reproductions. That he just intended these for the veteran market and sold his stuff for very reasonable prices. And that he turned out to be a very nice and generous man, handing out copies of his reproductions to collectors for study purposes. A story like this can be found at WAF. Obviously clearing himself and shifting the blame to fellow collectors, selling his fakes for genuine prices.

But what is truth? I hope the collectors concerned file the stories, well documented with the clear facts at the known forums because as it happens, stories grow more and more fantastic and vague throughout the years.
The story about the original dies - you won't find one maker with the same cores as the Floch fakes. The frames are very distinct and do not meet one of the known and accepted originals. Reworked original dies? Worn out dies? Maybe... But the overall flat looks of the Flock crosses suggest a newly made design, I think.
There happened a lot in Austria with old wartime stocks, that is for sure. And when they ran out of stocks, newly made parts slipped in.
It goes without saying a forum concentrates on original items. But the complete and honest story about all the Austrian fakes, I would be very, very interested!

Maybe I missed a few facts and posts throughout the year, then please point me to the threads! I love reading all the conspiracy theories about the 'early' fakes!

Hello Martin,

You may want to check out the Maerz and Stimson EK1 book. Hardly the "complete story", but still there is some good coverage of the Austrian fakes.

[Martin3]

You are welcome, Grant!

Thanks Todd, that one is indeed still missing in the library.

My main references are:
Das Eiserne Kreuz 1. Klasse von 1939 Vol I + II by Frank Thater
Das Eiserne Kreuz 1939 2. Klasse - Mario Alt
The Iron Cross 2. Class - Mario Alt en Dietrich Maerz

Plus a lot of the older books, but these 4 I check almost every day. The EK1 book by Maerz & Stimson sure has to be bought asap. It is quite an expensive one and the Thater books do cover a large field of the EK1 knowledge, which is why I do not have it yet.

And after that the RK books... And a separate insurance for just the reference books...

Thanks for the info!

Best wishes,
Martin