ww1 German Sniper shield from Somme, what do you think ?

[AndyM35]

Really interesting and thanks for the effort you have gone to so far to uncover how this shield was used. Great research!

Andy

[Panzer Kettenglied Sammler]

Thanks AndyM35, It has been progressively more interesting seeing how I started with nothing but an oddity. Without the postcard this shield would have been another one of those unknown items with a lost history and then thanks to the maps I could find a part of the trenches to back up the entrance protection theory.

This georeferenced link was very useful...... Side by side georeferenced maps viewer - Map images - National Library of Scotland
Thanks BlackCat1982

[AndyM35]

My apologies PKS, I did doubt this relic initially but your research has shown that this was indeed a WW1 relic and as you say an oddity. I’ve learnt something so thank you.

I’m intrigued now and I look forward to leaning more about this piece.

Andy

[Panzer Kettenglied Sammler]

Thanks Andy, no worries. I worried if it wasn't German when I bought the shield and that is why I came straight here. As for learning more I am satisfied for now , but trawling through some ww1 photos looking for this/another example of this type of installation elsewhere could prove rewarding.

Cheers, Jon

[Panzer Kettenglied Sammler]

Lots of Lovely deep pitting and really dark rust, Yes the Relic shield has ARRIVED , just given it a quick /light scrub, so no loose dust falling off it.
Those photos really do make it look massive......Quick mention of those buttresses in the postcard photo..... they are to made it wider, the stripe in the middle is level with the end of the shield on both ends, so then the outer lighter section on both sides serves to widen the protection.

My Christmas came early, I am so chuffed....I hope that everyone's Christmas / Holiday period is Great and may you all have a Super 2020

[HARRY THE MOLE]

Exciting stuff this

I looked at the maps and one part stands out for several reasons. Oh yeah, thanks for the pointer to the maps btw lol . I have attached my findings !!

The view from the trench photo on the postcard I think shows High Wood off to the Left on a higher elevation (can see a gap of sky on the right at the very top) and the road going past the trench on the left and also past a 'T' junction on the right (coincides with the map).... please see image below !!

I think that the tree line in the picture is running alongside a road running from left to right, and I certainly see no evidence of woods. In July 1916, High wood lay behind the German second line, but the map shows positions as of September 13th when the front line was further back. Also, the road which runs to the edge of High wood passes through a cutting, and the road which runs from left to right in front of the wood has a slight rise running parallel with the road on the left, and then through another cutting on the right, and I see no evidence of this on your picture. Your picture carries a handwritten date of 1915, and at that time the woods had suffered no shell damage, so there would have been a thick carpet of trees. I also suspect that the map you have used is not actually a trench map as such, but one used to illustrate the flow of battle and just shows approximate position of the front line without the various communication and support trenches. All interesting stuff though, and the website that you used is a very valuable tool for research.



This map of High wood is also from September 1916. If you look closely at the map from the bottom left corner of the wood, and just to the right of the cutting where the road runs through, there is an outpost marked 'Vaux Post.' Note all the cutting which the tracks run through.

Cheers,
Steve

[Panzer Kettenglied Sammler]

Hello and thank you, firstly my trench shield relic was not dug up from a location known by myself, just that it was picked up from the town of 'Martinpuich' near High Wood.

The postcard shows an example of such a shield installed right of a trench end on the left of the picture taker / aimed towards a 'supposed entrance' seeing as it is a trench end / stub. I did have a go at trying to identify where the postcard photo was taken by looking at trench maps and due to noticing 'track/road' positions and a possible elevated wood at the very top, where what looks like a treeline ends due to a gap in trees towards the top right hand corner of the image. I can't see a treeline left of that, but there is no light, so a mass of some sort exists to the left of that tree gap.

I don't know if you are looking from the same direction as myself and I am new to this looking at trench maps / correct date and where they all were / who was there etc. You lost me, I would like to see a trench map from Martinpuich to High Wood encompassing the area that I thought maybe in the postcard image and from where you are referring. Your point of reference and also mine. My guess is with Martinpuich behind me and High wood ahead and to the right if that is any help. I am sure that is what I included in my map, can you enlarge your map to show the position of the town of Martinpuich with reference to what you are referring to, please simplify as trench maps are REALLY new to me.

All I would like to know is where was that Trench photo postcard taken as it shows an example of my shield.

Kind regards, Jonathan

[HARRY THE MOLE]

It is almost impossible to tell where the picture was taken, and you have to bear in mind that the positions held in 1915 are not the same as those held in 1916. The fire step in the trench shows that the view is looking over the parapet towards the front line, and the German front line in 1915 was not facing towards High wood! You need to study trench maps of the Martinpuich area. Look on this website... https://library.mcmaster.ca>maps

You will also need to learn how to read a trench map. The grid reference systems are quite different from those used in WW2. Also be aware that on trench maps, German trenches are marked in red, and allied trenches in blue. But from 1918, German trenches were marked in blue and allied trenches in red. If you really want to take this subject seriously you can glean a lot of information from battalion, brigade, and divisional war diaries, these are available for download from the National Archives for a nominal fee. If you read through the daily front line reports you will come across grid references, and then armed with a suitable trench map you can plot the locations. Area maps are usually 1:40000 and above, and trench maps are 1:20000 or less, in scale.

Cheers,
Steve